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That really surprised me too. In my experience there certainly isn't any shortage of web startups in London, so I have to wonder why so few of them come to an H

That really surprised me too. In my experience there certainly isn't any shortage of web startups in London, so I have to wonder why so few of them come to an HN event. Off the top of my head, possible options: 1. Startups don't engage on HN, or don't feel part of the community. This seems pretty unlikely. 2. (London) HN readers are predominantly people in full time jobs, or just not entrepreneurial. 3. Startups are too busy working. But none of those seem particularly probable. Maybe it is a cultural difference? Or maybe it was just a bad night for startups :)

iuguy 16y ago
The feedback I got from talking to people seemed to indicate people had been doing their project for too long not to feel like a startup, or that their startup was a side project but the day job got in the way. That's partly why I (somewhat cheekily) asked a question about profitability. If youre a contractor with a day job the safety net combined with the time loss really works against you getting your startup off the ground. I think nearly everyone in the room recognised the sheer balls it took for the playnice.ly guys to go and launch. Everyone I spoke to mentioned the marketing point that wad raised and so few felt they could get it right. Perhaps that's also a factor in the response.
buro9 16y ago
4. They network elsewhere Many views on why they do, and why it's so fragmented. But fragmented it is. 5. London is flat and wide with the startups not centralised Not everyone is around Old St, and even those who are might still be grinding out code when the meetup started and then just opt not to walk in halfway through. For the ones further out, timings and stuff might put them off. People don't live around their either so it may be a trek home for some that puts them off. 6. Topics might not appeal to them Then there's those who might go for the topics, but weren't interested in that set of topics. 7. They don't wish to have the distraction of networking when they just want to keep their heads down and get on with it And those who have what they feel is the network they need, and so invest their time in that network alone. I didn't go, even though I have intended to go to the last couple. The reasons above aren't my reason, but I'm speculating that there are more than just the reasons you give. And I do have a startup (a small but profitable one, it ticks over nicely and I have a few things in the pipeline to help push it a bit further). And across the office I see another guy with a startup who managed to sell recently. And then there's people I know down near Shoreditch working on stuff. The people are clearly around, but none of the ones I know went last night. Just asked a couple of guys here. Reasons given: Formality and agenda, hanger-ons, recruiters, aimless networking. Concensus here was that if it was more to let off steam and pressure with a bunch of like-minded people sharing the problems informally over beer and fussball (yeah, we're thinking Bar Kick)... then most of them would be good for it. Also, there was the shared view that DrinkTank was pretty damn good whilst it was very small, invite only and vetted (people actually doing stuff).
- nickwsmith 16y ago
  Re: DrinkTank's policy of vetting attendees, it reminds me of a phenomenon that might be pertinent to this discussion http://blog.bumblebeelabs.com/social-software-sundays-2-the-evaporative-cooling-effect/ http://blog.bumblebeelabs.com/social-software-sundays-2-the-...
madaxe 16y ago
It's a combination of 3 and 1, I'd wager. I've worked in startup environments in both the UK and the US. In the US, being an entrepreneur is seen as a good thing, and people bond, mesh, and engage as a result of their common interest in stepping off the standard path. In the UK... not so much. The vast majority of founders I know are a) busy working their nuts off and b) pretty bitter, due to the UK attitude to entrepreneurs (urgh, why would you do that? Starting your own business is stupid). I guess what I'm getting at is that entrepreneurs in the US and the UK are pretty different - in the US, they rely on a support network of other entrepreneurs, and are part of a community. In the UK, you're on your own, definitively, and entrepreneurs shy away from potential support networks because they're so used to any large group of people being overwhelmingly comprised of naysayers. Oh, and finally, London isn't the entire UK. You want to see startups? Get yourself out of the city. Bootstrapped startups start elsewhere in the country, as London is so disproportionately expensive - Bath, for instance, is chock full of 'em.
- adamcharnock 16y ago
  > pretty bitter, due to the UK attitude to entrepreneurs (urgh, why would you do that? Starting your own business is stupid). I have heard this attitude mentioned a few times but it is something that I have never encountered (I really cannot think of a single instance). I feel very lucky for this, but also surprised/dismayed that people can be so negative about others who go an such an adventure. Keep your head down, know you are doing the right thing. Speaking of which, I need to write some code...
- Swannie 16y ago
  Noo, you let out the super secret location!

iuguy 16y ago

The feedback I got from talking to people seemed to indicate people had been doing their project for too long not to feel like a startup, or that their startup was a side project but the day job got in the way. That's partly why I (somewhat cheekily) asked a question about profitability. If youre a contractor with a day job the safety net combined with the time loss really works against you getting your startup off the ground. I think nearly everyone in the room recognised the sheer balls it took for the playnice.ly guys to go and launch. Everyone I spoke to mentioned the marketing point that wad raised and so few felt they could get it right. Perhaps that's also a factor in the response.

buro9 16y ago

4. They network elsewhere Many views on why they do, and why it's so fragmented. But fragmented it is. 5. London is flat and wide with the startups not centralised Not everyone is around Old St, and even those who are might still be grinding out code when the meetup started and then just opt not to walk in halfway through. For the ones further out, timings and stuff might put them off. People don't live around their either so it may be a trek home for some that puts them off. 6. Topics might not appeal to them Then there's those who might go for the topics, but weren't interested in that set of topics. 7. They don't wish to have the distraction of networking when they just want to keep their heads down and get on with it And those who have what they feel is the network they need, and so invest their time in that network alone. I didn't go, even though I have intended to go to the last couple. The reasons above aren't my reason, but I'm speculating that there are more than just the reasons you give. And I do have a startup (a small but profitable one, it ticks over nicely and I have a few things in the pipeline to help push it a bit further). And across the office I see another guy with a startup who managed to sell recently. And then there's people I know down near Shoreditch working on stuff. The people are clearly around, but none of the ones I know went last night. Just asked a couple of guys here. Reasons given: Formality and agenda, hanger-ons, recruiters, aimless networking. Concensus here was that if it was more to let off steam and pressure with a bunch of like-minded people sharing the problems informally over beer and fussball (yeah, we're thinking Bar Kick)... then most of them would be good for it. Also, there was the shared view that DrinkTank was pretty damn good whilst it was very small, invite only and vetted (people actually doing stuff).

nickwsmith 16y ago
Re: DrinkTank's policy of vetting attendees, it reminds me of a phenomenon that might be pertinent to this discussion http://blog.bumblebeelabs.com/social-software-sundays-2-the-evaporative-cooling-effect/ http://blog.bumblebeelabs.com/social-software-sundays-2-the-...

madaxe 16y ago

It's a combination of 3 and 1, I'd wager. I've worked in startup environments in both the UK and the US. In the US, being an entrepreneur is seen as a good thing, and people bond, mesh, and engage as a result of their common interest in stepping off the standard path. In the UK... not so much. The vast majority of founders I know are a) busy working their nuts off and b) pretty bitter, due to the UK attitude to entrepreneurs (urgh, why would you do that? Starting your own business is stupid). I guess what I'm getting at is that entrepreneurs in the US and the UK are pretty different - in the US, they rely on a support network of other entrepreneurs, and are part of a community. In the UK, you're on your own, definitively, and entrepreneurs shy away from potential support networks because they're so used to any large group of people being overwhelmingly comprised of naysayers. Oh, and finally, London isn't the entire UK. You want to see startups? Get yourself out of the city. Bootstrapped startups start elsewhere in the country, as London is so disproportionately expensive - Bath, for instance, is chock full of 'em.

adamcharnock 16y ago
> pretty bitter, due to the UK attitude to entrepreneurs (urgh, why would you do that? Starting your own business is stupid). I have heard this attitude mentioned a few times but it is something that I have never encountered (I really cannot think of a single instance). I feel very lucky for this, but also surprised/dismayed that people can be so negative about others who go an such an adventure. Keep your head down, know you are doing the right thing. Speaking of which, I need to write some code...
Swannie 16y ago
Noo, you let out the super secret location!