7 ms·

I think proprioception is also part of the secret to 'athleticism', which is kind of a vague hand-wavey concept but also a very real one (speaking as someone wi

I think proprioception is also part of the secret to 'athleticism', which is kind of a vague hand-wavey concept but also a very real one (speaking as someone with no natural athleticism myself). Being able to intuitively understand where your body is in space & how to react/move it in the moment is a hidden part of being an athlete, whereas conventional analysis usually just focuses on strength/speed/explosiveness. I also think there's a very strong cognitive/information processing in the moment aspect to athleticism as well- a general CPU motor that coordinates the speed, strength, proprioception etc. together in the moment. (Another aspect that I noticed I lacked growing up compared to others in sports)

gombosg 7y ago
> I also think there's a very strong cognitive/information processing in the moment aspect to athleticism as well This higher level processing is called intelligence, "bodily-kinesthetic" intelligence. It's just an aspect of the intelligence model like IQ or EQ etc.
hoorayimhelping 7y ago
I don't think it's a hidden skill in the context of sports, because it's a baseline that almost every athlete has. I think it's a huge myth to think of athleticism as a talent and not a skill that can be trained. It's absolutely a skill - my wife was pretty uncoordinated when we met - she never really played much sport or did many outdoorsy activities. She just assumed she was uncoordinated, but after about a year of lifting weights, she's found that her balance and coordination have improved tremendously. She doesn't stumble when walking as much, she's better at doing things like catching stuff out of the air, and she's more aware of where her body is in space - she doesn't bump into things as much.
- woodandsteel 7y ago
  Like most or all abilities, it is a combination of inborn talent that varies among individuals plus training and experience.
- hash872 7y ago
  Athleticism is absolutely an inborn talent. It certainly can be developed, but just look at any sport where all of the participants started at the same age in life and all received roughly the same number of repetitions/practices- there are logarithmic differences in ability. If we all started playing basketball at age 7 and all went to the same number of practices, by 18 there are just massive, massive differences between different players. Frankly, this is true of literally every field. Like, imagine we all started in programming at age 10 and all received the same level of instruction- by age 20 there are again just huge, huge differences between where people are at ability-wise. It's unfair and doesn't fit into a lot of meritocratic 'just work hard and you'll end up at the top!' narratives (which are especially popular in the US), but it's sadly true
  - ordu 7y ago
    > If we all started playing basketball at age 7 and all went to the same number of practices, by 18 there are just massive, massive differences between different players. It may be explained by a dedication to a learning, by general abilities to learn, by nutrition, by inborn muscles properties (type I or type II), and probably by a dozen of other factors. I mean, what you'd said doesn't imply that differences in ability to play basketball are due to an amount of inborn athleticism received.
  - InitialLastName 7y ago
    > If we all started playing basketball at age 7 and all went > to the same number of practices, by 18 there are just > massive, massive differences between different players. Those differences come from a lot of places, not least that the people who ended up on the better end of the stick almost certainly found every opportunity they could to play basketball outside of practice. My sister and I both played sports and learned about computers in school. She spent lots of her spare time after school and on weekends shooting baskets in the driveway. I spent that time messing around on computers and taking things apart. Any guesses which of us ended up the better athlete and which the better engineer?
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  "I think it's a huge myth to think of athleticism as a talent and not a skill that can be trained. " Do people really believe this? You can get pretty far with training but the top athletes have talent AND work hard. Personally I was always one of the slowest, uncoordinated and weakest in any sport in my youth. When I was 16 I started martial arts and in a few years got myself from the bottom to someone who is generally regarded as pretty athletic. But I had to put in as much as work as other more talented guys who went on to win championship. Due to my lack of talent unfortunately championships were out of my reach but I am still happy with the improvement and it's probably one of the most important things I have done in my life.
  - tom_ 7y ago
    But "you can get pretty far with training" is exactly what happens with a skill that can be trained?
ThrustVectoring 7y ago
This is a big part of why a lot of sports like to cross-train their athletes in Ballet. A huge thing that Ballet training gives you is an extremely good sense of where your center of gravity is and how to place your foot under it to stay upright and under control. This is extremely useful for high school football, where "being able to place your foot underneath you after getting hit and ending up in an unusual place in body configuration space" often makes the difference between whether or not you wind up getting tackled.
stbullard 7y ago
How “hidden” the importance of proprioception is in a sport depends on the sport. In archery, improving proprioception (not strength or visual acuity) is the primary object of training.
maxerickson 7y ago
Conventional analysis of athletes very much includes coordination, which covers a lot of what you are talking about.

gombosg 7y ago

> I also think there's a very strong cognitive/information processing in the moment aspect to athleticism as well This higher level processing is called intelligence, "bodily-kinesthetic" intelligence. It's just an aspect of the intelligence model like IQ or EQ etc.

hoorayimhelping 7y ago

I don't think it's a hidden skill in the context of sports, because it's a baseline that almost every athlete has. I think it's a huge myth to think of athleticism as a talent and not a skill that can be trained. It's absolutely a skill - my wife was pretty uncoordinated when we met - she never really played much sport or did many outdoorsy activities. She just assumed she was uncoordinated, but after about a year of lifting weights, she's found that her balance and coordination have improved tremendously. She doesn't stumble when walking as much, she's better at doing things like catching stuff out of the air, and she's more aware of where her body is in space - she doesn't bump into things as much.

woodandsteel 7y ago
Like most or all abilities, it is a combination of inborn talent that varies among individuals plus training and experience.
hash872 7y ago
Athleticism is absolutely an inborn talent. It certainly can be developed, but just look at any sport where all of the participants started at the same age in life and all received roughly the same number of repetitions/practices- there are logarithmic differences in ability. If we all started playing basketball at age 7 and all went to the same number of practices, by 18 there are just massive, massive differences between different players. Frankly, this is true of literally every field. Like, imagine we all started in programming at age 10 and all received the same level of instruction- by age 20 there are again just huge, huge differences between where people are at ability-wise. It's unfair and doesn't fit into a lot of meritocratic 'just work hard and you'll end up at the top!' narratives (which are especially popular in the US), but it's sadly true
- ordu 7y ago
  > If we all started playing basketball at age 7 and all went to the same number of practices, by 18 there are just massive, massive differences between different players. It may be explained by a dedication to a learning, by general abilities to learn, by nutrition, by inborn muscles properties (type I or type II), and probably by a dozen of other factors. I mean, what you'd said doesn't imply that differences in ability to play basketball are due to an amount of inborn athleticism received.
- InitialLastName 7y ago
  > If we all started playing basketball at age 7 and all went > to the same number of practices, by 18 there are just > massive, massive differences between different players. Those differences come from a lot of places, not least that the people who ended up on the better end of the stick almost certainly found every opportunity they could to play basketball outside of practice. My sister and I both played sports and learned about computers in school. She spent lots of her spare time after school and on weekends shooting baskets in the driveway. I spent that time messing around on computers and taking things apart. Any guesses which of us ended up the better athlete and which the better engineer?
Ididntdothis 7y ago
"I think it's a huge myth to think of athleticism as a talent and not a skill that can be trained. " Do people really believe this? You can get pretty far with training but the top athletes have talent AND work hard. Personally I was always one of the slowest, uncoordinated and weakest in any sport in my youth. When I was 16 I started martial arts and in a few years got myself from the bottom to someone who is generally regarded as pretty athletic. But I had to put in as much as work as other more talented guys who went on to win championship. Due to my lack of talent unfortunately championships were out of my reach but I am still happy with the improvement and it's probably one of the most important things I have done in my life.
- tom_ 7y ago
  But "you can get pretty far with training" is exactly what happens with a skill that can be trained?

ThrustVectoring 7y ago

This is a big part of why a lot of sports like to cross-train their athletes in Ballet. A huge thing that Ballet training gives you is an extremely good sense of where your center of gravity is and how to place your foot under it to stay upright and under control. This is extremely useful for high school football, where "being able to place your foot underneath you after getting hit and ending up in an unusual place in body configuration space" often makes the difference between whether or not you wind up getting tackled.

stbullard 7y ago

How “hidden” the importance of proprioception is in a sport depends on the sport. In archery, improving proprioception (not strength or visual acuity) is the primary object of training.

maxerickson 7y ago

Conventional analysis of athletes very much includes coordination, which covers a lot of what you are talking about.