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Carlsen isn't a chess genius. He's a genius who plays chess. The guy can recall chess positions from games he played as a teenager. (I played a few games of ch

Carlsen isn't a chess genius. He's a genius who plays chess. The guy can recall chess positions from games he played as a teenager. (I played a few games of chess today morning and I can barely remember the openings I played!)

thom 7y ago
To be honest, that's a really common ability for most elite chess players, who by the time they are teenagers are already grandmasters and have been playing for the best part of 10 years. Not to deny Magnus is a genius, though.
- yesenadam 7y ago
  It seems fairly pointless and meaningless to argue whether someone "is a genius" or not. Check out this recent short video of Magnus being shown and recognizing positions from Vishy Anand games. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acVvkz4MsKc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acVvkz4MsKc Common might be recognizing the opponent and next move (I, patzer, got half right, also that the move against Lautier was h6!), but Magnus also remembers the year, tournament, most of the game etc. He has a remarkable memory, and studies a lot of games, past and present – because he loves doing it. Bobby Fischer was similar, from what I hear. I've read quite a few stories of people from around the world meeting him and he'd say "I liked your game against X 10 years ago but you should have played move Y" and they were amazed he'd even heard of them, let alone studied their obscure games. (This was pre-internet and pre-computer-analysis)
  - thom 7y ago
    Do you have a video of other 2700+ players failing to do this? I've watched plenty of live tournament coverage, and it doesn't seem a rare skill. Not claiming they do it as well as the best player in the world, and arguably of all time, but this honestly just seems like table stakes at this level of the game. It's literally their job, every day, to study games and understand and recall new theory.
    - kzrdude 7y ago
      There are a few videos from the same channel with exactly that, and they do worse. But we can easily argue why Carlsen should excel at this -- he played WC matches against Anand, and he would have studied all of this as prep.
      - thom 7y ago
        Sure, although I've seen Carlsen utterly unprepared against opponents countless times as well (and still win). I am just saying I see Jan Gustafsson (admittedly team Carlsen) doing this on air regularly. Anish Giri does it all the time. I've seen Grischuk do it every time he's in a commentary booth.
    - crashbunny 7y ago
      I thought they actively study and memorise their own games, games of players they currently play against, and games of past notable players. Part of that study and memorising is practising playing the game through from start to finish. It's not like they accidentally memorised them after they see the game once.
      - thom 7y ago
        Indeed. I'm willing to believe Magnus is one of the best at this (posted this link because I'm a huge fan!), but it's his job and has been since he was a boy, it's not really magic. And it's just demonstrably not the case that he goes into every game knowing every topical line, not does he really need to.
        crashbunny 7y ago
        I'm a big Carlsen fan, he's currently the best chess player in the world, but not all grandmasters think Carlsen or the other top 10 are the best in history. I can't make an informed opinion myself, but I can retell the arguments I've heard used. In the past, players like Bobby Fischer dominated their peers, winning tournaments by 5 games or more. Today, super grandmasters play 20 moves of prep from memory and agree to a draw. When they get out of prep they don't play as skillfully as players of the past, pre chess engine era. Today super grandmasters put all their attention into opening theory. (I'm retelling the arguments I've heard, these aren't my own opinions) I will say I much prefer to watch a super grandmaster blitz or rapid game over a classical game. Not that I watch them live, but I see the occasional video of a grandmaster analysing them in a 10-30 minute video.
Ididntdothis 7y ago
It seems a lot of top athletes have excellent memory. A lot Formula 1 drivers can recall every turn in a race in detail to their engineers. There was a video of LeBron James recalling a some movie in a game in crazy detail.

thom 7y ago

To be honest, that's a really common ability for most elite chess players, who by the time they are teenagers are already grandmasters and have been playing for the best part of 10 years. Not to deny Magnus is a genius, though.

yesenadam 7y ago
It seems fairly pointless and meaningless to argue whether someone "is a genius" or not. Check out this recent short video of Magnus being shown and recognizing positions from Vishy Anand games. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acVvkz4MsKc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acVvkz4MsKc Common might be recognizing the opponent and next move (I, patzer, got half right, also that the move against Lautier was h6!), but Magnus also remembers the year, tournament, most of the game etc. He has a remarkable memory, and studies a lot of games, past and present – because he loves doing it. Bobby Fischer was similar, from what I hear. I've read quite a few stories of people from around the world meeting him and he'd say "I liked your game against X 10 years ago but you should have played move Y" and they were amazed he'd even heard of them, let alone studied their obscure games. (This was pre-internet and pre-computer-analysis)
- thom 7y ago
  Do you have a video of other 2700+ players failing to do this? I've watched plenty of live tournament coverage, and it doesn't seem a rare skill. Not claiming they do it as well as the best player in the world, and arguably of all time, but this honestly just seems like table stakes at this level of the game. It's literally their job, every day, to study games and understand and recall new theory.
  - kzrdude 7y ago
    There are a few videos from the same channel with exactly that, and they do worse. But we can easily argue why Carlsen should excel at this -- he played WC matches against Anand, and he would have studied all of this as prep.
    - thom 7y ago
      Sure, although I've seen Carlsen utterly unprepared against opponents countless times as well (and still win). I am just saying I see Jan Gustafsson (admittedly team Carlsen) doing this on air regularly. Anish Giri does it all the time. I've seen Grischuk do it every time he's in a commentary booth.
  - crashbunny 7y ago
    I thought they actively study and memorise their own games, games of players they currently play against, and games of past notable players. Part of that study and memorising is practising playing the game through from start to finish. It's not like they accidentally memorised them after they see the game once.
    - thom 7y ago
      Indeed. I'm willing to believe Magnus is one of the best at this (posted this link because I'm a huge fan!), but it's his job and has been since he was a boy, it's not really magic. And it's just demonstrably not the case that he goes into every game knowing every topical line, not does he really need to.
      - crashbunny 7y ago
        I'm a big Carlsen fan, he's currently the best chess player in the world, but not all grandmasters think Carlsen or the other top 10 are the best in history. I can't make an informed opinion myself, but I can retell the arguments I've heard used. In the past, players like Bobby Fischer dominated their peers, winning tournaments by 5 games or more. Today, super grandmasters play 20 moves of prep from memory and agree to a draw. When they get out of prep they don't play as skillfully as players of the past, pre chess engine era. Today super grandmasters put all their attention into opening theory. (I'm retelling the arguments I've heard, these aren't my own opinions) I will say I much prefer to watch a super grandmaster blitz or rapid game over a classical game. Not that I watch them live, but I see the occasional video of a grandmaster analysing them in a 10-30 minute video.

Ididntdothis 7y ago

It seems a lot of top athletes have excellent memory. A lot Formula 1 drivers can recall every turn in a race in detail to their engineers. There was a video of LeBron James recalling a some movie in a game in crazy detail.