5 ms·

> But it doesn't really cost more - it just costs more in monetary terms because waste (both in manufacturing and disposal) is externalized. And actually makin

> But it doesn't really cost more - it just costs more in monetary terms because waste (both in manufacturing and disposal) is externalized. And actually making the environmental impact and waste recovery part of the price won't happen, because the masses will then vote for the populist party that promises not to take away your daily steak and cheap appliances. We're kind of fucked — although I would love to have some glimmer of hope to hold on to.

sooheon 7y ago
A general algorithm for internalizing externalities (for the set of all conscious beings) would be the greatest human achievement I can think of.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  A late friend of mine work real hard to achieve something like this in a way that made sense to me: a tax on resource extraction rather than a tax on value add.
  - sooheon 7y ago
    Was your friend's name Henry George? :p https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_George https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_George
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      No, Eckart Wintzen. https://ex-tax.com/ https://ex-tax.com/
      - tda 7y ago
        Wow, I have had exactly this idea and it makes so much sense I was surprised I never heard anyone else come to this conclusion yet, but finally I seem to have found one. My idea in a nutshell: tax only non renewable or finite resources and not labour Finite resources include - land use (be it housing, leisure or agriculture though desirable locations should have higher taxes) - resources (metals, minerals) - fossil fuels Not to be taxed: - labour - wealth (having money has no environmental impact. It's the spending that matters) - added value (get rid of VAT) I feel like all tax systems are based on what is easy to be taxed, but I have never heard a good argument on why e.g. income should be taxed, but environmental impact not
ardy42 7y ago
> And actually making the environmental impact and waste recovery part of the price won't happen, because the masses will then vote for the populist party that promises not to take away your daily steak and cheap appliances. It could, if the populist party promises a massive increase in working class jobs that repair the kinds of things we currently throw away.
- ZeroGravitas 7y ago
  Why would the billionaires funding the populist party and providing vital coverage via their media empires want to do that though?
- te_chris 7y ago
  C.f. UK election 2019

sooheon 7y ago

A general algorithm for internalizing externalities (for the set of all conscious beings) would be the greatest human achievement I can think of.

jacquesm 7y ago
A late friend of mine work real hard to achieve something like this in a way that made sense to me: a tax on resource extraction rather than a tax on value add.
- sooheon 7y ago
  Was your friend's name Henry George? :p https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_George https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_George
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    No, Eckart Wintzen. https://ex-tax.com/ https://ex-tax.com/
    - tda 7y ago
      Wow, I have had exactly this idea and it makes so much sense I was surprised I never heard anyone else come to this conclusion yet, but finally I seem to have found one. My idea in a nutshell: tax only non renewable or finite resources and not labour Finite resources include - land use (be it housing, leisure or agriculture though desirable locations should have higher taxes) - resources (metals, minerals) - fossil fuels Not to be taxed: - labour - wealth (having money has no environmental impact. It's the spending that matters) - added value (get rid of VAT) I feel like all tax systems are based on what is easy to be taxed, but I have never heard a good argument on why e.g. income should be taxed, but environmental impact not

ardy42 7y ago

> And actually making the environmental impact and waste recovery part of the price won't happen, because the masses will then vote for the populist party that promises not to take away your daily steak and cheap appliances. It could, if the populist party promises a massive increase in working class jobs that repair the kinds of things we currently throw away.

ZeroGravitas 7y ago
Why would the billionaires funding the populist party and providing vital coverage via their media empires want to do that though?
te_chris 7y ago
C.f. UK election 2019