4 ms·

I've always thought it should be illegal or heavily disincentivized to create such throw away products, but have never figured out a good way to actually measur

by axaxs 7y ago

I've always thought it should be illegal or heavily disincentivized to create such throw away products, but have never figured out a good way to actually measure this. No company is going to admit to creating junk.

ryandrake 7y ago
No company wants to admit they make junk, but you can measure this at the landfill. If there was some magic way to scan every product as the city processes waste and learn the product's manufacturer, then you could require that companies pay the cost of disposal of their goods. Suppose this magical scanner could tell the difference between products too: Then you could charge the company 10x more for hazardous waste, etc. I always thought this would be the most fair way to charge companies for this negative externality. When a company makes throwaway junk, the customer shouldn't have to pay for it, and society shouldn't either. In a perfect world, it would be billable back to the company.
- iguy 7y ago
  This would be a step forward, but IMO would be far from solving this problem. Being rich enough to afford many things (like new shoes not being something you have to plan your budget around) means that you are rich enough to throw things away. And if most people are this rich, then the salary of they guy checking returned shoes for minor defects & funny smells is also going to be high compared to the cost of the goods. Past societies which didn't waste much just had lots of people who couldn't afford things, material goods we now take for granted. Like owning a dozen pairs of shoes.
  - madengr 7y ago
    Or rich enough to buy things that are made to be serviced. I don’t consider myself rich, but I buy things that are not disposable. I’ve had the same pair of dress shoes and boots for 25 years. The latter have been re-soled twice. My analog watch just came back from the shop for servicing. I recently built a audio (tube) amplifier kit. Again, very serviceable.
- axaxs 7y ago
  You know, that's a pretty solid idea. Maybe alternatively could even ship it back to their HQ for "repair", and charge them heftily for the shipping.
grecy 7y ago
If we ever get serious about climate change it will be illegal. But it's going to be very hard because that means killing some profitable businesses, and right now profit is more important than the planet.
- yodsanklai 7y ago
  > If we ever get serious about climate change it will be illegal Hopefully it will be one day... but my feeling is that the current trend is for more and more useless junk to be produced for very marginal benefit. An example comes to mind: ipad literally at every tables of every restaurants in some US airports, just to take order... do we really need that? is it worth the impact on the environment?
- spodek 7y ago
  As important as climate change is, plastic and other waste is one of several environmental problems. While it does affect climate in production, it also poisons land, air, and water, kills wildlife and messes up their hormones, us too, and more. Then there's deforestation, extinctions, topsoil loss, fish depletion, heavy metal pollution, etc. I distinguish these problems because solving them all is rooted in changing our culture -- primarily our valuing growth and externalizing costs. Replacing those values with enjoying what we have and stewardship, which many civilizations have that lasted far longer than ours has taken to trash the planet, would make a big difference. This community mostly talks technology, but changing values is probably more important in the long run.
  - mantap 7y ago
    If you live in a country that has municipal waste collection, the best thing you can do if you are concerned about plastic pollution is: 1. Don't litter. 2. Switch to clothes made wholly from natural fabrics such as wool or cotton. The problem with large pieces of plastic in the oceans is mainly caused by people in developing countries who dispose of their trash by throwing it in a river (because the only other choice is to burn it). That's not to say that people in more developed countries don't also contribute to ocean pollution but in developed countries the pollution mainly comes from washing clothes, as large pieces of plastic are safely disposed of by municipal waste collection.
sbierwagen 7y ago
Easy: heavily tax solid waste.
- goodcanadian 7y ago
  Result: massive increase in illegal dumping.

by axaxs 7y ago

ryandrake 7y ago

No company wants to admit they make junk, but you can measure this at the landfill. If there was some magic way to scan every product as the city processes waste and learn the product's manufacturer, then you could require that companies pay the cost of disposal of their goods. Suppose this magical scanner could tell the difference between products too: Then you could charge the company 10x more for hazardous waste, etc. I always thought this would be the most fair way to charge companies for this negative externality. When a company makes throwaway junk, the customer shouldn't have to pay for it, and society shouldn't either. In a perfect world, it would be billable back to the company.

iguy 7y ago
This would be a step forward, but IMO would be far from solving this problem. Being rich enough to afford many things (like new shoes not being something you have to plan your budget around) means that you are rich enough to throw things away. And if most people are this rich, then the salary of they guy checking returned shoes for minor defects & funny smells is also going to be high compared to the cost of the goods. Past societies which didn't waste much just had lots of people who couldn't afford things, material goods we now take for granted. Like owning a dozen pairs of shoes.
- madengr 7y ago
  Or rich enough to buy things that are made to be serviced. I don’t consider myself rich, but I buy things that are not disposable. I’ve had the same pair of dress shoes and boots for 25 years. The latter have been re-soled twice. My analog watch just came back from the shop for servicing. I recently built a audio (tube) amplifier kit. Again, very serviceable.
axaxs 7y ago
You know, that's a pretty solid idea. Maybe alternatively could even ship it back to their HQ for "repair", and charge them heftily for the shipping.

grecy 7y ago

If we ever get serious about climate change it will be illegal. But it's going to be very hard because that means killing some profitable businesses, and right now profit is more important than the planet.

yodsanklai 7y ago
> If we ever get serious about climate change it will be illegal Hopefully it will be one day... but my feeling is that the current trend is for more and more useless junk to be produced for very marginal benefit. An example comes to mind: ipad literally at every tables of every restaurants in some US airports, just to take order... do we really need that? is it worth the impact on the environment?
spodek 7y ago
As important as climate change is, plastic and other waste is one of several environmental problems. While it does affect climate in production, it also poisons land, air, and water, kills wildlife and messes up their hormones, us too, and more. Then there's deforestation, extinctions, topsoil loss, fish depletion, heavy metal pollution, etc. I distinguish these problems because solving them all is rooted in changing our culture -- primarily our valuing growth and externalizing costs. Replacing those values with enjoying what we have and stewardship, which many civilizations have that lasted far longer than ours has taken to trash the planet, would make a big difference. This community mostly talks technology, but changing values is probably more important in the long run.
- mantap 7y ago
  If you live in a country that has municipal waste collection, the best thing you can do if you are concerned about plastic pollution is: 1. Don't litter. 2. Switch to clothes made wholly from natural fabrics such as wool or cotton. The problem with large pieces of plastic in the oceans is mainly caused by people in developing countries who dispose of their trash by throwing it in a river (because the only other choice is to burn it). That's not to say that people in more developed countries don't also contribute to ocean pollution but in developed countries the pollution mainly comes from washing clothes, as large pieces of plastic are safely disposed of by municipal waste collection.

sbierwagen 7y ago

Easy: heavily tax solid waste.

goodcanadian 7y ago
Result: massive increase in illegal dumping.