5 ms·

I couldn't believe the gall behind the claim that the Internet is as limited a resource as electricity. The whole article seems ludicrous. "Discipline" interne

I couldn't believe the gall behind the claim that the Internet is as limited a resource as electricity. The whole article seems ludicrous. "Discipline" internet usage? As if it's inherently bad or something?

rfugger 16y ago
Well, obviously everyone can't download at full speed at once and expect any kind of performance from the shared network, so some kind of sharing arrangement is needed. The usual method is to price the scarce resource somehow. The spectre of usage-based billing was already motivating third-party ISPs to investigate building their own routing infrastructure. Seems like the market will sort it out, no?
- MichaelGG 16y ago
  Billing by total bytes transferred over the month has got to be the worst way to get a "sharing arrangement". Given the prices for exceeding the limit (a couple dollars per GB), we can sort of rule this out as just an idea to help avoid congestion. The issue, AFAIK, with the market "sorting things out", is that there are few companies that have gotten government permission to build out end networks. I'd guess it's near impossible for a new company to get access to actually lay out copper everywhere.
  - rfugger 16y ago
    Bell will sell you extra usage for $0.125/GB if you buy it in advance.
    - pyre 16y ago
      But there's nothing to prevent everyone from using the bandwidth they've purchased at the same time.
- Devilboy 16y ago
  But it's not a scarce resource. When you get more clients you have more money and can build more interwebs.
- pasbesoin 16y ago
  I believe the majority of the problem exists in "the last mile", or three or five. Eventually, the last stretch will get (yet) fatter. In the meantime, I've not seen discussion of possible interim workarounds. Such as e.g. Netflix enabling, on devices having sufficient storage, time-shifted, queued downloading. For example, during the work/school day, when residential usage is low, they could pump down the next film or three in your queue. Similar to electrical power generation, efficiencies are gained by leveling demand. Perhaps we're too impulsive in our choices. Also, it would place entire (DRM-ed?) movies at once onto local media -- possibly a concern. But it seems to me to be one approach, if "last mile" really is a problem and the different parties could actually cooperate instead of simply hoarding the pie. Side benefit: No congestion interruptions and artifacts.
jerf 16y ago
The weird one to me is the recurring claim that there's no incentive for companies to invest, as if it's just a given that there's all sorts of greedy companies out there somehow coming up with free bandwidth they aren't paying anything for to anyone. Can someone point me to this free bandwidth? I'd like to get in on this action.
torpor 16y ago
a) The internet runs on electricity, thus it is limited by the same rules. No electricity? No Internet. Period. b) Discipline means different things in the context of its usage as a word. As a technical term, it is quite appropriate. You may know the word from the world of porn and fascism, but technically its quite feasible to discipline a line input in such a way that it behaves properly in the context of the rest of the system. Not that I'm defending the position of the CRTC here, but I think its interesting to point out that you've had a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to this without thinking it through.

rfugger 16y ago

Well, obviously everyone can't download at full speed at once and expect any kind of performance from the shared network, so some kind of sharing arrangement is needed. The usual method is to price the scarce resource somehow. The spectre of usage-based billing was already motivating third-party ISPs to investigate building their own routing infrastructure. Seems like the market will sort it out, no?

MichaelGG 16y ago
Billing by total bytes transferred over the month has got to be the worst way to get a "sharing arrangement". Given the prices for exceeding the limit (a couple dollars per GB), we can sort of rule this out as just an idea to help avoid congestion. The issue, AFAIK, with the market "sorting things out", is that there are few companies that have gotten government permission to build out end networks. I'd guess it's near impossible for a new company to get access to actually lay out copper everywhere.
- rfugger 16y ago
  Bell will sell you extra usage for $0.125/GB if you buy it in advance.
  - pyre 16y ago
    But there's nothing to prevent everyone from using the bandwidth they've purchased at the same time.
Devilboy 16y ago
But it's not a scarce resource. When you get more clients you have more money and can build more interwebs.
pasbesoin 16y ago
I believe the majority of the problem exists in "the last mile", or three or five. Eventually, the last stretch will get (yet) fatter. In the meantime, I've not seen discussion of possible interim workarounds. Such as e.g. Netflix enabling, on devices having sufficient storage, time-shifted, queued downloading. For example, during the work/school day, when residential usage is low, they could pump down the next film or three in your queue. Similar to electrical power generation, efficiencies are gained by leveling demand. Perhaps we're too impulsive in our choices. Also, it would place entire (DRM-ed?) movies at once onto local media -- possibly a concern. But it seems to me to be one approach, if "last mile" really is a problem and the different parties could actually cooperate instead of simply hoarding the pie. Side benefit: No congestion interruptions and artifacts.

jerf 16y ago

The weird one to me is the recurring claim that there's no incentive for companies to invest, as if it's just a given that there's all sorts of greedy companies out there somehow coming up with free bandwidth they aren't paying anything for to anyone. Can someone point me to this free bandwidth? I'd like to get in on this action.

torpor 16y ago

a) The internet runs on electricity, thus it is limited by the same rules. No electricity? No Internet. Period. b) Discipline means different things in the context of its usage as a word. As a technical term, it is quite appropriate. You may know the word from the world of porn and fascism, but technically its quite feasible to discipline a line input in such a way that it behaves properly in the context of the rest of the system. Not that I'm defending the position of the CRTC here, but I think its interesting to point out that you've had a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to this without thinking it through.