4 ms·

Spring has basically accomplished the “as productive as Rails” part, as has ASP.NET Core, which would be my personal preference.

by jolux 7y ago

jcadam 7y ago
There are few technologies I despise more than Spring. Well, maybe OSGi. Also, hibernate and JPA. I've lost so many hours of my life fighting those things. I try to stick to Clojure for most of my JVM-ing these days. Right now I've got this one large Java/Spring-boot service I've inherited sitting in the middle of an otherwise micro-services-based architecture built using Clojure/ring and Python/flask services (for the ML stuff). I keep thinking about how I want to start calving off chunks of that thing to re-implement in something not Java/Spring. Because Spring magic is great until it's not. And then you're banging your head against your desk for a week chasing down some weird heisenbug related to some nonsensical Spring behavior. And there's no sense of accomplishment when you finally resolve it, because the entire exercise only served to increase your esoteric knowledge of Spring, which you never wanted to deal with in the first place.
- jolux 7y ago
  ASP.NET is rather different in that regard. Much better documented and supported.
sho 7y ago
You must be joking. A good Rails dev will run absolute rings around any java or .NET effort no matter what tools they're using. I don't even think I'm being subjective here; I work with java (well, kotlin/scala) devs and even they wouldn't say anything like that. Rails has disadvantages yes, concurrency and its lack of ability to support long-running tasks foremost amongst them, IMO. But dev speed, for standard "startup web app" features? There is no contest and I'm baffled as to why you would claim otherwise.
- jolux 7y ago
  You work with Java devs? Have you actually tried using the Java or .NET web frameworks? They’ve come a long way.

Spring has basically accomplished the “as productive as Rails” part, as has ASP.NET Core, which would be my personal preference.

by jolux 7y ago

Spring has basically accomplished the “as productive as Rails” part, as has ASP.NET Core, which would be my personal preference.

jcadam 7y ago

There are few technologies I despise more than Spring. Well, maybe OSGi. Also, hibernate and JPA. I've lost so many hours of my life fighting those things. I try to stick to Clojure for most of my JVM-ing these days. Right now I've got this one large Java/Spring-boot service I've inherited sitting in the middle of an otherwise micro-services-based architecture built using Clojure/ring and Python/flask services (for the ML stuff). I keep thinking about how I want to start calving off chunks of that thing to re-implement in something not Java/Spring. Because Spring magic is great until it's not. And then you're banging your head against your desk for a week chasing down some weird heisenbug related to some nonsensical Spring behavior. And there's no sense of accomplishment when you finally resolve it, because the entire exercise only served to increase your esoteric knowledge of Spring, which you never wanted to deal with in the first place.

jolux 7y ago
ASP.NET is rather different in that regard. Much better documented and supported.

sho 7y ago

You must be joking. A good Rails dev will run absolute rings around any java or .NET effort no matter what tools they're using. I don't even think I'm being subjective here; I work with java (well, kotlin/scala) devs and even they wouldn't say anything like that. Rails has disadvantages yes, concurrency and its lack of ability to support long-running tasks foremost amongst them, IMO. But dev speed, for standard "startup web app" features? There is no contest and I'm baffled as to why you would claim otherwise.

jolux 7y ago
You work with Java devs? Have you actually tried using the Java or .NET web frameworks? They’ve come a long way.