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It is very much not the case that only open source developers prefer cross-platform standards to Metal and all the other vendor-specific APIs. I have to say th

It is very much not the case that only open source developers prefer cross-platform standards to Metal and all the other vendor-specific APIs. I have to say that I don't know why you dismiss open source graphics stacks. Anyone who has worked with the open source Mesa knows it is a breath of fresh air compared to the proprietary Qualcomm drivers, Mali drivers, Apple OpenGL drivers, or (horrors) fglrx.

pjmlp 7y ago
Then you don't go much to game developer conferences, watch GDC talks, or read game development related publications like EDGE or Develop.
- pcwalton 7y ago
  It doesn't take much searching to find game developers saying the exact same things I'm saying: https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/06/05/some-game-developers-hint-at-abandoning-the-mac-if-apple-phases-out-opengl https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/06/05/some-game-develop... And I've spoken with the Unity engine developers, who say they still consider OpenGL ES 2 support essential. Sure, Unity uses Metal (and I use Metal) because Apple forces us to to get maximum performance, but does anyone really want to write both Vulkan and Metal? Valve wouldn't have acquired MoltenVK if they were really itching to write Metal!
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    A couple of indie developers it seems, not the group I was talking about. Valve is on the driving seat with Khronos regarding Vulkan.
    - pcwalton 7y ago
      I'd like to point out that this is very much not what you started out saying upthread, that only open source developers are dissatisfied with Metal.
      - pjmlp 7y ago
        Fair enough, I should have been more specific. Let's not forget that OpenGL is only alive thanks to NeXT acquisition, and Apple"s trying to cater to UNIX devs on their survival years, OpenGL wasn't even on the radar for Copland, rather QuickDraw 3D. Which actually was probably the only OS that provided an usable OpenGL SDK, that neither ARB nor Khronos ever delivered.

pjmlp 7y ago

Then you don't go much to game developer conferences, watch GDC talks, or read game development related publications like EDGE or Develop.

pcwalton 7y ago
It doesn't take much searching to find game developers saying the exact same things I'm saying: https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/06/05/some-game-developers-hint-at-abandoning-the-mac-if-apple-phases-out-opengl https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/06/05/some-game-develop... And I've spoken with the Unity engine developers, who say they still consider OpenGL ES 2 support essential. Sure, Unity uses Metal (and I use Metal) because Apple forces us to to get maximum performance, but does anyone really want to write both Vulkan and Metal? Valve wouldn't have acquired MoltenVK if they were really itching to write Metal!
- pjmlp 7y ago
  A couple of indie developers it seems, not the group I was talking about. Valve is on the driving seat with Khronos regarding Vulkan.
  - pcwalton 7y ago
    I'd like to point out that this is very much not what you started out saying upthread, that only open source developers are dissatisfied with Metal.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      Fair enough, I should have been more specific. Let's not forget that OpenGL is only alive thanks to NeXT acquisition, and Apple"s trying to cater to UNIX devs on their survival years, OpenGL wasn't even on the radar for Copland, rather QuickDraw 3D. Which actually was probably the only OS that provided an usable OpenGL SDK, that neither ARB nor Khronos ever delivered.