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Obviously I agree that bad drivers deserve little sympathy. But not all human errors are down to bad drivers nor a lack of care. > The less careful we are even
by laumars 7y ago
Obviously I agree that bad drivers deserve little sympathy. But not all human errors are down to bad drivers nor a lack of care.
> The less careful we are even when the mistake doesn't cause harm, the more frequently we'll make the mistake. Some feedback that made people be more careful, and pay more attention, would be good.
That only works if mistake are concious. My point is mistakes can be unintended like rowdy kids causing a distraction at the wrong time.
> The gap between these mistakes causing harm and not causing harm is basically just luck.
I agree. But also the gap between a good driver driving well and a good driver making an honest mistake because of a badly timed distraction is also just bad luck.
It's happened to me before -- I've ran a red light at temporary traffic lights after my 2nd child was born (so I was tired thus required sharper focus) and my 1st child was so excited about having a baby sister that he kept making a scene. For a fraction of a second I lost focus and that fraction of a second happened to be when I was approaching road works. I was lucky that it was a Sunday evening and driving along a quiet village road so there wasn't any other vehicles. But I still had ran a red light despite my best efforts of driving safely.
> And at a larger level: if we can't be bothered to be that careful...
It's not about people not making the effort to drive safely; it's about human error. If it were that easy to drive then we'd already have infallible autonomous cars but we don't because driving isn't actually all that easy. This is also why I'm fully in favour of all these new smart safety features that autonomy has introduced; they help reduce the impact of the worst instances of human error.
Just to recap: I have little sympathy for bad or negligent drivers. I just want to remind people that it's easy to demonise others but sometimes actions are genuine flukes of bad luck.
- Wowfunhappy 7y agoOkay, so you make an error, you get a fine for it. It's not as though I'm arguing anyone who runs a red light should go to jail. Heck, maybe our fines are too high, or should take income into account—I think all of those things would be healthy conversations. But cars are deadly vehicles, and mistakes—regardless of the circumstance—should have consequences before someone gets killed. As frequently as possible.
- throwaway1912 7y agoI’d be all for that if we could sort out gun control first.
- mikepurvis 7y agoJust commenting to reinforce the degree of my agreement here. Basically the attitude from law enforcement and the legal system comes down to: - Oh, no one was hurt? Just a close call? Everyone go home and try to be more careful out there next time. - Oh, you killed someone? I mean, it's a fluke— could have happened to anyone. Honestly, you've suffered enough emotional trauma already, here's a slap on the wrist to make the victim's family feel a bit better. This is not hypothetical; it happens all the time. Here's an example from my city: Cyclist struck and killed, Feb 2017: https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/cyclist-dies-after-being-hit-from-behind-by-car-1.3267698 https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/cyclist-dies-after-being-hit-fr... All charges dropped, March 2018: https://www.therecord.com/news-story/8354441-charges-dropped-in-crash-that-killed-waterloo-cyclist/ https://www.therecord.com/news-story/8354441-charges-dropped... The library charges you a fee for returning a book late— it's a small penalty and a reminder to be more attentive in the future. Fines on the road should be treated the same way, as an additional cost you pay for the privilege of using the road, in proportion to the number of "mistakes" and "brain farts" you have. And who knows, maybe that additional cost might motivate a few more people to choose transit or a cab instead of driving while fatigued, or pull over and wait for the kids to stop fighting in the back seat.
- kortilla 7y agoAs long as you are okay with fining cyclists for riding on sidewalks, failing to come to a complete stop at stop signs, failing to signal turn direction, failing to yield, etc as well. Same with pedestrians for jaywalking. You can’t be intolerant of vehicle mistakes and allow for others if you actually care about safety.
- fabatka 7y agoActually when you drive a car, you have a lot more responsibility. It is easier to cause serious harm to someone while driving a multi-ton vehicle, than when riding a bike.
- wpietri 7y ago> That only works if mistake are concious. I don't think that's true at all. Indeed, feedback and fear of consequences are two things that drive people to become conscious. Both of mistakes and of the potential for mistakes.
- laumars 7y agoYou've carefully cropped out the following sentence that explains why your point doesn't always ring too. With the best will in the world, you cannot prevent 100% of distractions 100% of the time. Young kids, for example, will always find a way to circumvent your best efforts at least some of the time.
- wpietri 7y agoNo, my point stands. The notion of 100% anything is a straw man; it's nothing I said. But we do aim to asymptotically approach it over time, and we do that through proportionate feedback. I understand you somehow feel at the mercy of your kids, and think that should entirely excuse negligent driving. But please understand that plenty of parents feel and behave otherwise.