4 ms·

>Every time I read these threads, I'm 1. Flattered by how sophisticated HN thinks our systems are (they're not. and we're not that smart. FB's A-team stopped wo

>Every time I read these threads, I'm 1. Flattered by how sophisticated HN thinks our systems are (they're not. and we're not that smart. FB's A-team stopped working on ads a long time ago) Facebook's money comes primarily from it's ads. https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/120114/how-does-facebook-fb-make-money.asp https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/120114/how-does-fac... What you're saying seems unlikely >2. Entertained by how HN thinks ad targeting works (we don't want to know everything about YOU. we want to know basic info about all of our users.) That's odd, then why does Facebook show me targetted ads based on my whatsapp and messenger conversations, youtube videos I watch, websites I browse, and places and people that are nearby me when I'm signed into Facebook on my phone Not to be rude, but your post seems like a lot of bullshit just based on things i've seen Facebook do too many times to call it a coincidence. >There's no meaningful business value to capturing biometrics or pictures of things in your home. This is just straight bullshit. Those things are a direct window into finding out exactly what people buy, pretty much the solid gold, diamond encrusted wet dream of advertisers.

iscoelho 7y ago
> whatsapp ... conversations You seriously believe that the encrypted communications platform that the US government desperately wants a backdoor in is secretly backdoored by Facebook for ads? Something that mundane? The platform (WhatsApp) that is subject to huge public skepticism, who's source code is so limited in scope that it's probably been audited by every security researcher that is interested in posting a "I found Facebook being evil" blog post? And you believe they are using this data for ads? The most obvious thing ever to see if you audit/monitor the app? This is why theories like this borderline paranoia. FUD. Nothing more. Statements like that discredit your entire argument. -- And yes, of course Facebook uses trackers on sites to figure out what sites you've been to. Of course they use unencrypted data available to them to target ads. Your data is already in their database. Just because it's in another table to allow the "big bad ad agencies" to target you (data the ad agencies can not even see) does not make it any different. Everyone does this. Everyone will continue doing this. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with that status quo. The only part that can be morally wrong, is if a human themselves inspects the database without respect for privacy. And this is why we have laws for dealing with malicious employees, robberies, house break-ins, etc. Things happen whether it's online or offline. All of this was possible (arguably even more so) before Facebook. It's just more centralized now. This paranoia simply needs to stop. EDIT: Adding, it makes complete sense that Facebook's A-team is not working on ads. Taking a page from Google: Diversification. Ads are auto-pilot income, have hit their tech ceiling, and Facebook's longevity depends on investment outside of their core business. I am unaware how this is so unbelievable to some.
- danShumway 7y ago
  Facebook doesn't need to backdoor your encrypted messages to use WhatsApp for ads, there's still a lot of interesting data they can get based just on the metadata of who you converse with. And that's not paranoia, it's openly something that Facebook is doing right now[0]. > In a blogpost, WhatsApp announced it would begin sharing names and phone numbers with its parent company, to allow its more than 1 billion users “to communicate with businesses that matter to you too” – like notifications from airlines, delivery services or your bank, for example. > Facebook will also use that data to make friend suggestions and combine that data with the reams of information it has already collected so that it can tailor ads even more specifically to your interests. If you think that Facebook isn't mining WhatsApp data for ads, you aren't paying enough attention to Facebook. I don't think they've backdoored the E2E encryption (though it wouldn't surprise me if in the future they started doing on-device keyword detection for ads, which wouldn't technically require them to insert a backdoor). But it doesn't really matter, they don't need to go that far. > Everyone does this. Everyone will continue doing this. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with that status quo. This is how all of these conversations always go. Privacy advocates are paranoid crazy people, until it turns out that companies are spying on you. Then suddenly the argument is that the status quo is fine and the controls are great and everyone always knew they were being recorded, and why is everyone making a big deal about it? If you're frustrated that people come up with crazy theories about Facebook turning on their microphones, those theories might exist because smart TVs and mobile devices already use audio to track you[1]. Every time that someone raises an alarm on a privacy violation, and people tell them they're paranoid, and then the paranoid people turn out to be right, the theories about tracking get a little bolder in response. If advertisers want the paranoia to stop, maybe they should stop giving people reasons to be paranoid. The current state of privacy conspiracy theories is entirely, 100% the fault of the advertising industry and other mass data-collection industries and government departments. [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/25/whatsapp-backlash-facebook-data-privacy-users https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/25/whatsapp-... [1]: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/11/beware-of-ads-that-use-inaudible-sound-to-link-your-phone-tv-tablet-and-pc/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/11/beware-of-ads-th...
  - 7y ago

iscoelho 7y ago

> whatsapp ... conversations You seriously believe that the encrypted communications platform that the US government desperately wants a backdoor in is secretly backdoored by Facebook for ads? Something that mundane? The platform (WhatsApp) that is subject to huge public skepticism, who's source code is so limited in scope that it's probably been audited by every security researcher that is interested in posting a "I found Facebook being evil" blog post? And you believe they are using this data for ads? The most obvious thing ever to see if you audit/monitor the app? This is why theories like this borderline paranoia. FUD. Nothing more. Statements like that discredit your entire argument. -- And yes, of course Facebook uses trackers on sites to figure out what sites you've been to. Of course they use unencrypted data available to them to target ads. Your data is already in their database. Just because it's in another table to allow the "big bad ad agencies" to target you (data the ad agencies can not even see) does not make it any different. Everyone does this. Everyone will continue doing this. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with that status quo. The only part that can be morally wrong, is if a human themselves inspects the database without respect for privacy. And this is why we have laws for dealing with malicious employees, robberies, house break-ins, etc. Things happen whether it's online or offline. All of this was possible (arguably even more so) before Facebook. It's just more centralized now. This paranoia simply needs to stop. EDIT: Adding, it makes complete sense that Facebook's A-team is not working on ads. Taking a page from Google: Diversification. Ads are auto-pilot income, have hit their tech ceiling, and Facebook's longevity depends on investment outside of their core business. I am unaware how this is so unbelievable to some.

danShumway 7y ago
Facebook doesn't need to backdoor your encrypted messages to use WhatsApp for ads, there's still a lot of interesting data they can get based just on the metadata of who you converse with. And that's not paranoia, it's openly something that Facebook is doing right now[0]. > In a blogpost, WhatsApp announced it would begin sharing names and phone numbers with its parent company, to allow its more than 1 billion users “to communicate with businesses that matter to you too” – like notifications from airlines, delivery services or your bank, for example. > Facebook will also use that data to make friend suggestions and combine that data with the reams of information it has already collected so that it can tailor ads even more specifically to your interests. If you think that Facebook isn't mining WhatsApp data for ads, you aren't paying enough attention to Facebook. I don't think they've backdoored the E2E encryption (though it wouldn't surprise me if in the future they started doing on-device keyword detection for ads, which wouldn't technically require them to insert a backdoor). But it doesn't really matter, they don't need to go that far. > Everyone does this. Everyone will continue doing this. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with that status quo. This is how all of these conversations always go. Privacy advocates are paranoid crazy people, until it turns out that companies are spying on you. Then suddenly the argument is that the status quo is fine and the controls are great and everyone always knew they were being recorded, and why is everyone making a big deal about it? If you're frustrated that people come up with crazy theories about Facebook turning on their microphones, those theories might exist because smart TVs and mobile devices already use audio to track you[1]. Every time that someone raises an alarm on a privacy violation, and people tell them they're paranoid, and then the paranoid people turn out to be right, the theories about tracking get a little bolder in response. If advertisers want the paranoia to stop, maybe they should stop giving people reasons to be paranoid. The current state of privacy conspiracy theories is entirely, 100% the fault of the advertising industry and other mass data-collection industries and government departments. [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/25/whatsapp-backlash-facebook-data-privacy-users https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/25/whatsapp-... [1]: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/11/beware-of-ads-that-use-inaudible-sound-to-link-your-phone-tv-tablet-and-pc/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/11/beware-of-ads-th...
- 7y ago