5 ms·

It already did, in 2016.

notduncansmith 7y ago
Only that still isn’t it.
dragontamer 7y ago
I'd argue that message started in Occupy Wall Street. The problem is if you run around and protest without any real goal, you end up with a big nothing burger 7+ years later.
- gmueckl 7y ago
  It is easier to be against something than it is to be for something else. A lot of revolts break down after they remove the power they are opposed to because the participants are not united by a common constructive vision for an alternative.
AnimalMuppet 7y ago
That's an interesting take on both Trump's and Bernie's campaigns. To at least some degree, I think it fits. But I was thinking about several percent of the country marching in the streets. That's not something we've seen yet.
- m0zg 7y ago
  >> several percent of the country marching in the streets Unlikely to happen here seeing that unemployment is at a 50 year low and wages are rising.
  - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
    But some of those protests are in prosperous places. The economy has been getting better for a long time in Chile. Hong Kong isn't hurting, either - or at least wasn't until the start of the protests.
    - m0zg 7y ago
      You're right, these events are often triggered by a combination of factors, and repression of freedoms is often a factor. But I don't see any repression of freedoms either. But also consider that it is not necessary for things to be _uniformly_ bad to trigger a large protest. E.g. France is "prosperous" on paper, yet a substantial segment of its population is really hurting, and they blame the "progressive" policies of Macron et al for that.
    - nopriorarrests 7y ago
      >Hong Kong isn't hurting I read some opinions about HK protests, and they were saying, basically, that HK youth has no chance to buy an apartment and live a good middle class life, hence the revolt. This is something that is not captured in GDP growth metric. To me it makes perfect sense. What is the point of, say, 5% GDP growth if you pay 1/2 of your salary as rent and will never accumulate enough dough for downpayment?
      - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
        Hmm. By that standard, chunks of the US are also tinder waiting for a match - the coastal cities because costs (housing in particular) are too high, and the heartland because incomes are too low.
        dragonwriter 7y ago
        Hence, the rise in both authoritarian and progressive populism in the US.
        m0zg 7y ago
        In what way is Trump "authoritarian"?
        AnimalMuppet 7y ago
        "Authoritarian" and "progressive" are not mutually exclusive. See, for example, Venezuela.
- larnmar 7y ago
  That’s the great thing about democracy, though — you don’t have to march in the streets to effect change, you can simply vote for it.
  - davidw 7y ago
    Unless someone is fiddling with the election.
- CM30 7y ago
  To some degree, the Trump and Bernie campaigns set back that sort of reaction. By offering alternatives that involved voting for a new type of candidate rather than marching in the street. If nothing much changes in terms of the status quo because of those politicians or their campaigns however, that's when you'll probably see the marches in the streets, protests, etc.

Only that still isn’t it.

I'd argue that message started in Occupy Wall Street. The problem is if you run around and protest without any real goal, you end up with a big nothing burger 7+ years later.

gmueckl 7y ago
It is easier to be against something than it is to be for something else. A lot of revolts break down after they remove the power they are opposed to because the participants are not united by a common constructive vision for an alternative.

AnimalMuppet 7y ago

That's an interesting take on both Trump's and Bernie's campaigns. To at least some degree, I think it fits. But I was thinking about several percent of the country marching in the streets. That's not something we've seen yet.

m0zg 7y ago
>> several percent of the country marching in the streets Unlikely to happen here seeing that unemployment is at a 50 year low and wages are rising.
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  But some of those protests are in prosperous places. The economy has been getting better for a long time in Chile. Hong Kong isn't hurting, either - or at least wasn't until the start of the protests.
  - m0zg 7y ago
    You're right, these events are often triggered by a combination of factors, and repression of freedoms is often a factor. But I don't see any repression of freedoms either. But also consider that it is not necessary for things to be _uniformly_ bad to trigger a large protest. E.g. France is "prosperous" on paper, yet a substantial segment of its population is really hurting, and they blame the "progressive" policies of Macron et al for that.
  - nopriorarrests 7y ago
    >Hong Kong isn't hurting I read some opinions about HK protests, and they were saying, basically, that HK youth has no chance to buy an apartment and live a good middle class life, hence the revolt. This is something that is not captured in GDP growth metric. To me it makes perfect sense. What is the point of, say, 5% GDP growth if you pay 1/2 of your salary as rent and will never accumulate enough dough for downpayment?
    - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
      Hmm. By that standard, chunks of the US are also tinder waiting for a match - the coastal cities because costs (housing in particular) are too high, and the heartland because incomes are too low.
      - dragonwriter 7y ago
        Hence, the rise in both authoritarian and progressive populism in the US.
        m0zg 7y ago
        In what way is Trump "authoritarian"?
        AnimalMuppet 7y ago
        "Authoritarian" and "progressive" are not mutually exclusive. See, for example, Venezuela.
larnmar 7y ago
That’s the great thing about democracy, though — you don’t have to march in the streets to effect change, you can simply vote for it.
- davidw 7y ago
  Unless someone is fiddling with the election.
CM30 7y ago
To some degree, the Trump and Bernie campaigns set back that sort of reaction. By offering alternatives that involved voting for a new type of candidate rather than marching in the street. If nothing much changes in terms of the status quo because of those politicians or their campaigns however, that's when you'll probably see the marches in the streets, protests, etc.