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> People can operate their own encryption, either by operating their own server technology or sending encrypted blobs over FB. > Encryption technology can hide

> People can operate their own encryption, either by operating their own server technology or sending encrypted blobs over FB. > Encryption technology can hide content, but won’t hide the parties to a communication without a lot of extra work These two statements alone are reason enough why the whole encryption debate is pointless. The moment the government of a country makes it illegal for chatting apps to use encryption, the criminals are just going to roll their own crypto. So it'll just end up taking away the privacy of regular citizens, and will undoubtedly be used to violate their rights. Furthermore, I'm 100% that if enceyption is outlawed, in the case of WhatsApp, Facebook will just start analysing all your chats and using them for more targetted ads. Yay.

giancarlostoro 7y ago
If encryption is outlawed I'm burning all my credit cards and buying everything cash. I am not accessing my bank accounts without encryption. Even if "only police get access to decrypt."
- bippitybop0 7y ago
  This is a needlessly hyperbolic comment that illustrates the, at times, silliness of this entire conversation even among technologists. EMV credit cards are essentially off-the-shelf ISO/IEC 7816 smart cards and would not function without encryption. Are you suggesting an encryption outlaw would trickle all the way down to how a credit card functions? Do we stop using Apple/Android Pay, both of which have several protocols in their inherent functionality that require encryption? Online purchases are not the only reason a credit card exists, but your position has widened from the government's debate here on social media/consumer uses to "all private encryption in the whole world," a typical webshit perspective. Banks have regulatory requirements for encryption set by governments in question, so all of the actions you'd take make absolutely zero sense even in the unlikely event of encryption being outlawed. You might as well get Ron Rivest to sign a jersey and burn it on TikTok. "Outlawing encryption" is getting dangerously close to "coming for your guns," and it's amazing how even this audience doesn't sit down and go -- hm, is that really likely despite appointed officials beating a hobby horse? -- with the same fervor that a single word Mark Zuckerberg says before Congress gets 300 comments of suspicious and objective argument before the thread falls off the front page. To the -4 gray I go! Censure me for my nonconformity! Food for thought: "the government is in the pocket of special interests, overturn Citizens United" and "the government just might outlaw encryption, donate to EFF" are mutually exclusive positions. Those special interests want and, occasionally, need encryption. So. Maybe think a bit, because one cannot believe both, and I'm wagering many here do.
  - ggggtez 7y ago
    Encrypted communication is essentially what allowed online banking and online sales to finally take off and created Amazon and eBay, among other businesses that could not have existed without it. And outlawing encryption is what politicians are talking about. They do so all the time. "The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia." -- Prime Minister of Truth, AU
    - giancarlostoro 7y ago
      Agreed, and it's a shame Australia became a place that cannot be trusted to maintain valid encryption.
    - bigiain 7y ago
      Also the laws of Australia: It's becoming illegal to use cash for any transaction over $10k. The politicians are proposing to outlaw both encryption _and_ cash... :sigh:
      - giancarlostoro 7y ago
        Yikes I had not even thought of that. How long till they install CT OS from Watch Dogs? I mean really that game is now about to be a documentary of the future. I hope not.
perl4ever 7y ago
"The moment the government of a country makes it illegal for chatting apps to use encryption, the criminals are just going to roll their own crypto." This is copied & pasted from anti-gun control arguments and is ignoring the excruciatingly obvious in exactly the same way. Sure, criminals don't obey the law. But the reason prohibiting "regular citizens" from doing something helps stop criminals from doing that thing is because they will stand out more and have fewer excuses.
- homonculus1 7y ago
  I'd rather arrest criminals for committing crimes and not for exercising their rights.

giancarlostoro 7y ago

If encryption is outlawed I'm burning all my credit cards and buying everything cash. I am not accessing my bank accounts without encryption. Even if "only police get access to decrypt."

bippitybop0 7y ago
This is a needlessly hyperbolic comment that illustrates the, at times, silliness of this entire conversation even among technologists. EMV credit cards are essentially off-the-shelf ISO/IEC 7816 smart cards and would not function without encryption. Are you suggesting an encryption outlaw would trickle all the way down to how a credit card functions? Do we stop using Apple/Android Pay, both of which have several protocols in their inherent functionality that require encryption? Online purchases are not the only reason a credit card exists, but your position has widened from the government's debate here on social media/consumer uses to "all private encryption in the whole world," a typical webshit perspective. Banks have regulatory requirements for encryption set by governments in question, so all of the actions you'd take make absolutely zero sense even in the unlikely event of encryption being outlawed. You might as well get Ron Rivest to sign a jersey and burn it on TikTok. "Outlawing encryption" is getting dangerously close to "coming for your guns," and it's amazing how even this audience doesn't sit down and go -- hm, is that really likely despite appointed officials beating a hobby horse? -- with the same fervor that a single word Mark Zuckerberg says before Congress gets 300 comments of suspicious and objective argument before the thread falls off the front page. To the -4 gray I go! Censure me for my nonconformity! Food for thought: "the government is in the pocket of special interests, overturn Citizens United" and "the government just might outlaw encryption, donate to EFF" are mutually exclusive positions. Those special interests want and, occasionally, need encryption. So. Maybe think a bit, because one cannot believe both, and I'm wagering many here do.
- ggggtez 7y ago
  Encrypted communication is essentially what allowed online banking and online sales to finally take off and created Amazon and eBay, among other businesses that could not have existed without it. And outlawing encryption is what politicians are talking about. They do so all the time. "The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia." -- Prime Minister of Truth, AU
  - giancarlostoro 7y ago
    Agreed, and it's a shame Australia became a place that cannot be trusted to maintain valid encryption.
  - bigiain 7y ago
    Also the laws of Australia: It's becoming illegal to use cash for any transaction over $10k. The politicians are proposing to outlaw both encryption _and_ cash... :sigh:
    - giancarlostoro 7y ago
      Yikes I had not even thought of that. How long till they install CT OS from Watch Dogs? I mean really that game is now about to be a documentary of the future. I hope not.

perl4ever 7y ago

"The moment the government of a country makes it illegal for chatting apps to use encryption, the criminals are just going to roll their own crypto." This is copied & pasted from anti-gun control arguments and is ignoring the excruciatingly obvious in exactly the same way. Sure, criminals don't obey the law. But the reason prohibiting "regular citizens" from doing something helps stop criminals from doing that thing is because they will stand out more and have fewer excuses.

homonculus1 7y ago
I'd rather arrest criminals for committing crimes and not for exercising their rights.