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Men in general, are more aggressive and assertive when it comes to pay increases. If a male dominated industry has sustained pay increases year on year, this is

Men in general, are more aggressive and assertive when it comes to pay increases. If a male dominated industry has sustained pay increases year on year, this is probably why. Over time, female dominated professions have wages that do not increase at the same rate.

SolaceQuantum 7y ago
"Men in general, are more aggressive and assertive when it comes to pay increases." Isn't there a study that said women ask for pay raises at the same rate as men, but they are granted them less often?
- Thorentis 7y ago
  The way you ask can be just as important as asking. Hence, my comment.
  - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
    Isn't there another study that said that women were punished for being aggressive like a male in the form of lower performance reviews?
    - Thorentis 7y ago
      Consider the reverse. A female boss, and a male being aggressive in wanting a pay rise. How do you think she would respond? Or even just consider a woman going to another woman for a pay rise. Do you think being more aggressive would work or not?
    - pluto9 7y ago
      Surely it would be more productive to actually link the studies than repeatedly post this rhetorical question.
TulliusCicero 7y ago
And women are punished for demanding pay increases, so they can't win either way.
- Thorentis 7y ago
  Source?
  - TulliusCicero 7y ago
    https://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/lean-out-the-dangers-for-women-who-negotiate# https://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/lean-out-t... > In four studies, Bowles and collaborators from Carnegie Mellon found that people penalized women who initiated negotiations for higher compensation more than they did men. The effect held whether they saw the negotiation on video or read about it on paper, whether they viewed it from a disinterested third-party perspective or imagined themselves as senior managers in a corporation evaluating an internal candidate. Even women penalized the women who initiated the conversation, though they also penalized the men who did so. They just didn’t seem to like seeing someone ask for more money. The paper: https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/cfawis/bowles.pdf https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/cfawis/bowles.pdf
    - Thorentis 7y ago
      Rubbish "study". Nothing in there is based on reality, but people put in a test environment and asked to try and behave how they would in the real world. Reading written accounts of people asking for a pay rise and deciding what to do? How does that in any way mirror an face to face interaction? All 4 experiments are either on paper, or using video recordings. No statistics, very few people. Just another "gender gap" study that the media can cite to push the narrative.
      - TulliusCicero 7y ago
        How exactly would you measure social 'punishment' in response to negotiating in the real world? Contact random women's bosses right after they attempt to negotiate and ask them how they felt about it? You could set up interviews with real companies using your own candidates who will negotiate or not negotiate as you direct them, but then how do you gather data on the feelings of the bosses? Some things can only really be tested in artificial environments.

SolaceQuantum 7y ago

"Men in general, are more aggressive and assertive when it comes to pay increases." Isn't there a study that said women ask for pay raises at the same rate as men, but they are granted them less often?

Thorentis 7y ago
The way you ask can be just as important as asking. Hence, my comment.
- SolaceQuantum 7y ago
  Isn't there another study that said that women were punished for being aggressive like a male in the form of lower performance reviews?
  - Thorentis 7y ago
    Consider the reverse. A female boss, and a male being aggressive in wanting a pay rise. How do you think she would respond? Or even just consider a woman going to another woman for a pay rise. Do you think being more aggressive would work or not?
  - pluto9 7y ago
    Surely it would be more productive to actually link the studies than repeatedly post this rhetorical question.

TulliusCicero 7y ago

And women are punished for demanding pay increases, so they can't win either way.

Thorentis 7y ago
Source?
- TulliusCicero 7y ago
  https://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/lean-out-the-dangers-for-women-who-negotiate# https://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/lean-out-t... > In four studies, Bowles and collaborators from Carnegie Mellon found that people penalized women who initiated negotiations for higher compensation more than they did men. The effect held whether they saw the negotiation on video or read about it on paper, whether they viewed it from a disinterested third-party perspective or imagined themselves as senior managers in a corporation evaluating an internal candidate. Even women penalized the women who initiated the conversation, though they also penalized the men who did so. They just didn’t seem to like seeing someone ask for more money. The paper: https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/cfawis/bowles.pdf https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/cfawis/bowles.pdf
  - Thorentis 7y ago
    Rubbish "study". Nothing in there is based on reality, but people put in a test environment and asked to try and behave how they would in the real world. Reading written accounts of people asking for a pay rise and deciding what to do? How does that in any way mirror an face to face interaction? All 4 experiments are either on paper, or using video recordings. No statistics, very few people. Just another "gender gap" study that the media can cite to push the narrative.
    - TulliusCicero 7y ago
      How exactly would you measure social 'punishment' in response to negotiating in the real world? Contact random women's bosses right after they attempt to negotiate and ask them how they felt about it? You could set up interviews with real companies using your own candidates who will negotiate or not negotiate as you direct them, but then how do you gather data on the feelings of the bosses? Some things can only really be tested in artificial environments.