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> When I've compared notes with folks who attended schools like Utah and Boise State, their education is basically the same as mine. I work at one of the well-

> When I've compared notes with folks who attended schools like Utah and Boise State, their education is basically the same as mine. I work at one of the well-known tech companies, and what I’ve noticed among most software engineers and data scientists is that they don’t really care about your background as long as you can do the work. Which is really nice; whenever I interview candidates, I don’t notice much correlation between the school they attended and their interview performance. However, the pure research division at this company is totally different. There appears to be a very heavy emphasis placed on the school attended. I was a bit miffed one day because I overheard one of the AI researchers saying “everyone knows there is a huge difference in caliber between the students that attended Stanford and Berkeley for CS and those that attended Georgia Tech”. As someone who attended GT and has a research background, this rubbed me the wrong way. There were also a few disparaging comments about the South in general. Even if there is a difference between the schools (at the graduate level), I would imagine the Bell curves can’t be that far apart from each other. It’s not like 90% of the students that attended Stanford are brighter than 90% that attended CMU.

reaperducer 7y ago
There were also a few disparaging comments about the South in general Silicon Valley is all about equality and opportunity. Except when it isn't. Certain types of bigotry are not only tolerated, they're celebrated.
- leetrout 7y ago
  A large-ish, very pro-underdog company I worked for was absolutely fine with "toothless" jokes because I was from Tennessee and fat jokes. I was pretty incensed about the fat joke because that's one level under orientation, skin color, etc IMO.
- ufmace 7y ago
  I see a lot of that in deep Blue country these days. https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anythin... is a good exploration of what's going on. Everybody wants to pat themselves on the back about how non-bigoted they are because they stopped hating the last outgroup. In reality, there's just as much hatred and bigotry as ever, they just transferred it to a new outgroup.
- MS90 7y ago
  James Hetfield talked about that as a reason he left. "I kind of got sick of the Bay Area, the attitudes of the people there, a little bit. They talk about how diverse they are, and things like that, and it's fine if you're diverse like them. But showing up with a deer on the bumper doesn't fly in Marin County. My form of eating organic doesn't vibe with theirs." https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/metallica-james-hetfield-moved-to-colorado-after-getting-sick-of-elitist-attitude-in-san-francisco-bay-area/ https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/metallica-james-hetfield-m...
  - aketchum 7y ago
    > My form of eating organic doesn't vibe with theirs I've never heard this before but I love this quote. In my opinion, hunting responsibly brings one a great appreciation for conservation efforts and increases connection to nature. Especially hunting fowl, where you are walking the whole time and working with a dog that you trained yourself from a pup for this purpose. It gives great appreciation for nature and responsibly sourced food.
    - MS90 7y ago
      And the fact is no matter how hard a farmer or rancher works to ensure their product is "organic" it is still being exposed to human meddling. It will never be as "organic" as an animal that grew up in the middle of the woods with little to no human exposure.
  - qqqwerty 7y ago
    There are plenty of places in the Bay Area where hunting and fishing (and the associated lifestyle/political leanings) are part of the cultural fabric. I live in one of those towns, lifted trucks and fishing boats in front of every other house. Obviously, you won't find that in the super wealthy enclaves of Marin, which is probably on the extreme end of the liberal scale, but one does not have to move to Colorado to escape that. And another relevant tidbit in the article: "It's something I felt. I probably made it up in my head a little bit."
  - bsder 7y ago
    1) I really wouldn't quote James Hetfield as a bastion of "tolerance", thanks. 2) Lots of old Metallica metal fans will regale you at length about how Metallica sold out to Redneck America(tm) in return for lots and lots of cash. So, lots of this kind of stuff is suspect as to whether it is genuine vs planned marketing. 3) "But showing up with a deer on the bumper doesn't fly in Marin County." Erm, actually James I know quite a few people in Marin that are totally fine with a deer on the hood. Somehow I never saw you hanging out with any of us. But, then, none of us are multimillionaires who are worthy of running around in Mr. Hetfield's social circles.
leetrout 7y ago
I have no way to prove this but I feel certain I missed out on the next step in some jobs because of my Southern accent.
ritchiea 7y ago
A professor in my social circle has taught at various schools across North America including Harvard, University of Toronto and a few prominent USA state schools. He says in his experience there's no difference between the intellect and quality of work he sees at the schools he's taught at but the Harvard students are more ambitious and more entitled. In my own personal experience Harvard, Princeton, Stanford types often carry an elitism that they need to justify the work they put in to get to that school and the amount the school prestige means to their own self worth. There's also a classic OpEd from I believe the Harvard Crimson from a Harvard admin officer saying Harvard could admit sufficiently qualified students from it's applicants several times over the actual count of its freshman class. So basically you have to have rich parents or be lucky not just be qualified. The elitism exists nonetheless and it's a fraud.
- csa 7y ago
  > Harvard could admit sufficiently qualified students from it's applicants several times over the actual count of its freshman class The key word there being "sufficiently". The academics at Harvard are not unusually difficult (relatively easy in some majors), and I would argue that the content in the coursework is distinctly not what makes Harvard what it is. If Harvard only accepted their third-tier of admits (i.e., ~4000th to 6000th ranked applicants) for a decade, I imagine that you would find that it will have lost quite a bit of its shine. Not that they still wouldn't produce great people who do great things, just that they would produce much fewer of them. The ambition and capability of the top 30ish percent of each of Harvard's entering classes is a game changer, imho.
  - ritchiea 7y ago
    As opposed to the current 1/3 legacy, unclear percentage propped up by wealthy parents, elite prep school system that consistently and efficiently finds the best students. There are still plenty of directionless Harvard kids that end up back in their parents's basements after graduation. Also have you ever stopped to ask yourself who reads and evaluates these admission packets? How often do we complain about hiring here on HN? That it's hard, that you can't tell enough from the slice of information you have about a person. Do you really think the admission people at Harvard have such a gift to accurately tier these teens futures? And if they had such a gift, why are they admission officers at a university and not in a position where their impeccable qualitative assessment skills can be better leveraged to make tons of money or truly great careers? The same people assessing these applications are the same, reasonably intelligent but flawed people that are doing recruiting and hiring and screening in every other prestigious institution that struggles to choose the best candidates. Anyway I'm not trying to argue most people are undeserving (except for the legacy and wealthy parents kids, who are again, a very sizable percentage). But the idea that we actually have a finely enough tuned comb and good enough data to actually pick the children with the most elite futures is on its face absurd. And culturally both the benefactors and the people in awe of the halo of achievement around our elite universities are taking it too far.
akhilcacharya 7y ago
> It’s not like 90% of the students that attended Stanford are brighter than 90% that attended CMU. But they probably are brighter than 99% of people that attended NC State. As a sidenote, I've noticed these sorts of microaggressions against the South as well, but it's dampened by the fact that I don't appear stereotypically "southern" because I don't have an accent and am also South-Asian by ethnicity. (Disclaimer - I went to NC State, so I can say this)
maxk42 7y ago
> I don’t notice much correlation between the school they attended and their interview performance. I've noticed one: About half the best engineers I've hired over the years have no degree at all. For the other half, there's no correlation between school and performance.
synaesthesisx 7y ago
Oddly enough some of the brightest engineers I've worked with were actually self-taught. No formal CS background or education, but they were incredibly driven and outperformed from Stanford.

reaperducer 7y ago

There were also a few disparaging comments about the South in general Silicon Valley is all about equality and opportunity. Except when it isn't. Certain types of bigotry are not only tolerated, they're celebrated.

leetrout 7y ago
A large-ish, very pro-underdog company I worked for was absolutely fine with "toothless" jokes because I was from Tennessee and fat jokes. I was pretty incensed about the fat joke because that's one level under orientation, skin color, etc IMO.
ufmace 7y ago
I see a lot of that in deep Blue country these days. https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anythin... is a good exploration of what's going on. Everybody wants to pat themselves on the back about how non-bigoted they are because they stopped hating the last outgroup. In reality, there's just as much hatred and bigotry as ever, they just transferred it to a new outgroup.
MS90 7y ago
James Hetfield talked about that as a reason he left. "I kind of got sick of the Bay Area, the attitudes of the people there, a little bit. They talk about how diverse they are, and things like that, and it's fine if you're diverse like them. But showing up with a deer on the bumper doesn't fly in Marin County. My form of eating organic doesn't vibe with theirs." https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/metallica-james-hetfield-moved-to-colorado-after-getting-sick-of-elitist-attitude-in-san-francisco-bay-area/ https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/metallica-james-hetfield-m...
- aketchum 7y ago
  > My form of eating organic doesn't vibe with theirs I've never heard this before but I love this quote. In my opinion, hunting responsibly brings one a great appreciation for conservation efforts and increases connection to nature. Especially hunting fowl, where you are walking the whole time and working with a dog that you trained yourself from a pup for this purpose. It gives great appreciation for nature and responsibly sourced food.
  - MS90 7y ago
    And the fact is no matter how hard a farmer or rancher works to ensure their product is "organic" it is still being exposed to human meddling. It will never be as "organic" as an animal that grew up in the middle of the woods with little to no human exposure.
- qqqwerty 7y ago
  There are plenty of places in the Bay Area where hunting and fishing (and the associated lifestyle/political leanings) are part of the cultural fabric. I live in one of those towns, lifted trucks and fishing boats in front of every other house. Obviously, you won't find that in the super wealthy enclaves of Marin, which is probably on the extreme end of the liberal scale, but one does not have to move to Colorado to escape that. And another relevant tidbit in the article: "It's something I felt. I probably made it up in my head a little bit."
- bsder 7y ago
  1) I really wouldn't quote James Hetfield as a bastion of "tolerance", thanks. 2) Lots of old Metallica metal fans will regale you at length about how Metallica sold out to Redneck America(tm) in return for lots and lots of cash. So, lots of this kind of stuff is suspect as to whether it is genuine vs planned marketing. 3) "But showing up with a deer on the bumper doesn't fly in Marin County." Erm, actually James I know quite a few people in Marin that are totally fine with a deer on the hood. Somehow I never saw you hanging out with any of us. But, then, none of us are multimillionaires who are worthy of running around in Mr. Hetfield's social circles.

leetrout 7y ago

I have no way to prove this but I feel certain I missed out on the next step in some jobs because of my Southern accent.

ritchiea 7y ago

A professor in my social circle has taught at various schools across North America including Harvard, University of Toronto and a few prominent USA state schools. He says in his experience there's no difference between the intellect and quality of work he sees at the schools he's taught at but the Harvard students are more ambitious and more entitled. In my own personal experience Harvard, Princeton, Stanford types often carry an elitism that they need to justify the work they put in to get to that school and the amount the school prestige means to their own self worth. There's also a classic OpEd from I believe the Harvard Crimson from a Harvard admin officer saying Harvard could admit sufficiently qualified students from it's applicants several times over the actual count of its freshman class. So basically you have to have rich parents or be lucky not just be qualified. The elitism exists nonetheless and it's a fraud.

csa 7y ago
> Harvard could admit sufficiently qualified students from it's applicants several times over the actual count of its freshman class The key word there being "sufficiently". The academics at Harvard are not unusually difficult (relatively easy in some majors), and I would argue that the content in the coursework is distinctly not what makes Harvard what it is. If Harvard only accepted their third-tier of admits (i.e., ~4000th to 6000th ranked applicants) for a decade, I imagine that you would find that it will have lost quite a bit of its shine. Not that they still wouldn't produce great people who do great things, just that they would produce much fewer of them. The ambition and capability of the top 30ish percent of each of Harvard's entering classes is a game changer, imho.
- ritchiea 7y ago
  As opposed to the current 1/3 legacy, unclear percentage propped up by wealthy parents, elite prep school system that consistently and efficiently finds the best students. There are still plenty of directionless Harvard kids that end up back in their parents's basements after graduation. Also have you ever stopped to ask yourself who reads and evaluates these admission packets? How often do we complain about hiring here on HN? That it's hard, that you can't tell enough from the slice of information you have about a person. Do you really think the admission people at Harvard have such a gift to accurately tier these teens futures? And if they had such a gift, why are they admission officers at a university and not in a position where their impeccable qualitative assessment skills can be better leveraged to make tons of money or truly great careers? The same people assessing these applications are the same, reasonably intelligent but flawed people that are doing recruiting and hiring and screening in every other prestigious institution that struggles to choose the best candidates. Anyway I'm not trying to argue most people are undeserving (except for the legacy and wealthy parents kids, who are again, a very sizable percentage). But the idea that we actually have a finely enough tuned comb and good enough data to actually pick the children with the most elite futures is on its face absurd. And culturally both the benefactors and the people in awe of the halo of achievement around our elite universities are taking it too far.

akhilcacharya 7y ago

> It’s not like 90% of the students that attended Stanford are brighter than 90% that attended CMU. But they probably are brighter than 99% of people that attended NC State. As a sidenote, I've noticed these sorts of microaggressions against the South as well, but it's dampened by the fact that I don't appear stereotypically "southern" because I don't have an accent and am also South-Asian by ethnicity. (Disclaimer - I went to NC State, so I can say this)

maxk42 7y ago

> I don’t notice much correlation between the school they attended and their interview performance. I've noticed one: About half the best engineers I've hired over the years have no degree at all. For the other half, there's no correlation between school and performance.

synaesthesisx 7y ago

Oddly enough some of the brightest engineers I've worked with were actually self-taught. No formal CS background or education, but they were incredibly driven and outperformed from Stanford.