4 ms·

DOS was a great platform for developing games. It was simple. It was constrained. We could write code in QBASIC and compile it to EXE and distribute it. It coul

by yori 7y ago

DOS was a great platform for developing games. It was simple. It was constrained. We could write code in QBASIC and compile it to EXE and distribute it. It could run on any DOS machine then. Is there an equivalent like that now for game development? What I am looking for is a simple and constrained environment. Has support for graphics and audio. But in this age, I would like something that works uniformly across Windows, Linux desktop (such as XFCE, GNOME, KDE), and macOS. Is there something like this to create small games like that in the DOS era?

silvester23 7y ago
I don't have any experience with it personally, but from what I understand, Unity comes pretty close. Though it's not particularly constrained, as far as I know.
fenceFoil 7y ago
PICO-8 harkens back to limited colors and resolutions, and includes a chiptune editor. It exports to a web player, so should work anywhere. https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php If you want to make an adventure game, you can make a hypercard-like text game in Twine which also exports to the web. You could even draw on old DOS fonts like at https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/fontlist/ https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/fontlist/ and style your game like it's 1990! https://twinery.org/ https://twinery.org/
- yori 7y ago
  PICO-8 seems to cost $14.99: https://www.lexaloffle.com/games.php?page=updates https://www.lexaloffle.com/games.php?page=updates Is this not open source? Are there any open source alternatives to PICO-8? The idea of PICO-8 is really good and I really liked it but I would like this to based on something open source so that I know that the platform will not disappear at the whims of the vendor and that I can hack on the platform itself if necessary.
  - tunaoftheland 7y ago
    One that I've kicked around with is TIC-80: https://github.com/nesbox/TIC-80 https://github.com/nesbox/TIC-80 A bit more generous with the system resources, but PICO-8 does have a bigger community and "carts" to download and poke around with.
  - JoshTriplett 7y ago
    There are multiple Open Source implementations of the PICO-8 "console", such as https://github.com/Gigoteur/UnicornConsole https://github.com/Gigoteur/UnicornConsole (formerly "PX8").
  - makapuf 7y ago
    You can have a look there: https://github.com/paladin-t/fantasy https://github.com/paladin-t/fantasy
klodolph 7y ago
These exist! Yes. - You can still use QBASIC and compile it to an EXE. Distribute your game with a copy of DosBox, and it will work uniformly across Windows, Linux, and macOS. - If you like Lua, go for Pico8 or LÖVE. Pico8 is fairly constrained, and LÖVE is a bit more general. - If you like JavaScript, write a game that uses the 2D canvas and Web Audio API. You can upload this to your website and play it on any computer. - Haxe (look it up, I don’t know it well enough.) - If you like something more capable, try out a game engine like Unity. You can hack together a simple game following tutorials and create Windows, Linux, and macOS builds at the touch of a button. I think it’s worth discussing why people like “constrained” systems in a bit more depth, because some of the things I’ve mentioned above are definitely not constrained. As you get older and more experienced, you develop opinions about how software should be developed, and most can’t turn these opinions off at will. These opinions range from ones about the programming experience (compile times, type systems, testing) to the user experience (small downloads, no unnecessary libraries, support for specific targets, etc.) Spend some time with a kid in high school who loves making video games. Let me tell you, even though I am 100% a better programmer and better software engineer than the high school kids I meet, I still get a fresh dose of humility when I work with them on game projects. They simply don’t care about type systems, testing, or library dependencies yet. They just want to put cool things in their game and share it with other people. The tools for making that happen, and making it happen easily and quickly, are better than they have ever been. The tools are also free (as in beer), once you have a computer and internet connection. So if you want to rediscover the experience of programming like a kid again, try rediscovering the wild and eager mindset of programming like a kid, and you’ll find that the modern tools are pretty damn cool.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- TrentLarr 7y ago
  >I think it’s worth discussing why people like “constrained” systems in a bit more depth, because some of the things I’ve mentioned above are definitely not constrained. I am the CTO of an edu org, and I've spent a lot of time thinking about this. I would say that from our perspective, it's people aware that they're paralyzed by choice. Unity is a bad choice for kids because there's SO MANY OPTIONS on how to build your game, so many plugins, so many choices! QBasic was great because it was limited. You had to do a lot of the work yourself, sure, but you could start with a simple text game and not have to think about which input library to use, or font choices, or whatever. We start kids with Scratch. Most of them build a cute toy and get bored - we break out python (a document with a few imports and a window that opens with a moving sprite included) for the ones who start getting frustrated with the scratch gui (because it's too limiting).
n3k5 7y ago
> I would like something that works uniformly across Windows, Linux desktop (such as XFCE, GNOME, KDE), and macOS. Löve [0] has a great approach to cross-platform deployment [1]. It's not exactly constrained when you compare it to QBasic, but of course using only a subset of its modules is no problem :) Of course the closest equivalent is … DosBox! Runs on basically every system, does graphics and sound and not much else :) Btw., Watcom in Open Source now [2]. IIRC Retro City Rampage 486 was made with that. [0] https://love2d.org/ https://love2d.org/ [1] https://love2d.org/wiki/Game_Distribution https://love2d.org/wiki/Game_Distribution [2] https://github.com/open-watcom/open-watcom-v2 https://github.com/open-watcom/open-watcom-v2
bananamerica 7y ago
Godot Engine exports to all these platforms with the click of a button. It is mostly lauded for its 2D capabilities. 3D can be hit or miss.
- app4soft 7y ago
  Can you point me where are docs on Godot Engine export for MS-DOS?
  - bananamerica 7y ago
    Sorry if I'm mistaken, but I was answering to the comment by yori[1], and he/she did not request for MS-DOS support. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21773396 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21773396
    - app4soft 7y ago
      I see. BTW, there was one such request: > inb4 users ask for an MS-DOS port of #GodotEngine [0] https://mastodon.technology/@GodotEngineBot/100805699692234543 https://mastodon.technology/@GodotEngineBot/1008056996922345...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
zonidjan 7y ago
Errrrr... dosbox?
- yori 7y ago
  What's wrong with dosbox? Please elaborate.
  - zonidjan 7y ago
    > Is there an equivalent like that now for game development? dosbox is your equivalent.
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  https://www.dosbox.com https://www.dosbox.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOSBox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOSBox
  - zonidjan 7y ago
    Yes, I know what dosbox is, thank you. That's ... why I mentioned it ...
thedaemon 7y ago
https://www.portal.qb64.org/ https://www.portal.qb64.org/ https://www.freebasic.net/ https://www.freebasic.net/ QB64 maintains compatibility with QuickBasic (mostly) and can compile to DOS. FreeBASIC has newer bits added for a more modern approach.
drinfinity 7y ago
Target the NES or SNES. Emulators are tiny and work on all platforms. Bundle one.
qxga 7y ago
Here's a somewhat obscure one that fits your description: http://www.headcannon.com/HCGE/ http://www.headcannon.com/HCGE/ >The Headcannon Game Engine, HCGE for short, has been in development for over a decade by an '80s kid raised with classic computer and game console hardware. Borne from a deep fascination with these machines and a thorough respect for the developers who could make the best of them, HCGE is highly specialized for getting the most out of the 2D realm on today's hardware; Retro sensibility meets modern raw power!

by yori 7y ago

silvester23 7y ago

I don't have any experience with it personally, but from what I understand, Unity comes pretty close. Though it's not particularly constrained, as far as I know.

fenceFoil 7y ago

PICO-8 harkens back to limited colors and resolutions, and includes a chiptune editor. It exports to a web player, so should work anywhere. https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php If you want to make an adventure game, you can make a hypercard-like text game in Twine which also exports to the web. You could even draw on old DOS fonts like at https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/fontlist/ https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/fontlist/ and style your game like it's 1990! https://twinery.org/ https://twinery.org/

yori 7y ago
PICO-8 seems to cost $14.99: https://www.lexaloffle.com/games.php?page=updates https://www.lexaloffle.com/games.php?page=updates Is this not open source? Are there any open source alternatives to PICO-8? The idea of PICO-8 is really good and I really liked it but I would like this to based on something open source so that I know that the platform will not disappear at the whims of the vendor and that I can hack on the platform itself if necessary.
- tunaoftheland 7y ago
  One that I've kicked around with is TIC-80: https://github.com/nesbox/TIC-80 https://github.com/nesbox/TIC-80 A bit more generous with the system resources, but PICO-8 does have a bigger community and "carts" to download and poke around with.
- JoshTriplett 7y ago
  There are multiple Open Source implementations of the PICO-8 "console", such as https://github.com/Gigoteur/UnicornConsole https://github.com/Gigoteur/UnicornConsole (formerly "PX8").
- makapuf 7y ago
  You can have a look there: https://github.com/paladin-t/fantasy https://github.com/paladin-t/fantasy

klodolph 7y ago

These exist! Yes. - You can still use QBASIC and compile it to an EXE. Distribute your game with a copy of DosBox, and it will work uniformly across Windows, Linux, and macOS. - If you like Lua, go for Pico8 or LÖVE. Pico8 is fairly constrained, and LÖVE is a bit more general. - If you like JavaScript, write a game that uses the 2D canvas and Web Audio API. You can upload this to your website and play it on any computer. - Haxe (look it up, I don’t know it well enough.) - If you like something more capable, try out a game engine like Unity. You can hack together a simple game following tutorials and create Windows, Linux, and macOS builds at the touch of a button. I think it’s worth discussing why people like “constrained” systems in a bit more depth, because some of the things I’ve mentioned above are definitely not constrained. As you get older and more experienced, you develop opinions about how software should be developed, and most can’t turn these opinions off at will. These opinions range from ones about the programming experience (compile times, type systems, testing) to the user experience (small downloads, no unnecessary libraries, support for specific targets, etc.) Spend some time with a kid in high school who loves making video games. Let me tell you, even though I am 100% a better programmer and better software engineer than the high school kids I meet, I still get a fresh dose of humility when I work with them on game projects. They simply don’t care about type systems, testing, or library dependencies yet. They just want to put cool things in their game and share it with other people. The tools for making that happen, and making it happen easily and quickly, are better than they have ever been. The tools are also free (as in beer), once you have a computer and internet connection. So if you want to rediscover the experience of programming like a kid again, try rediscovering the wild and eager mindset of programming like a kid, and you’ll find that the modern tools are pretty damn cool.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
TrentLarr 7y ago
>I think it’s worth discussing why people like “constrained” systems in a bit more depth, because some of the things I’ve mentioned above are definitely not constrained. I am the CTO of an edu org, and I've spent a lot of time thinking about this. I would say that from our perspective, it's people aware that they're paralyzed by choice. Unity is a bad choice for kids because there's SO MANY OPTIONS on how to build your game, so many plugins, so many choices! QBasic was great because it was limited. You had to do a lot of the work yourself, sure, but you could start with a simple text game and not have to think about which input library to use, or font choices, or whatever. We start kids with Scratch. Most of them build a cute toy and get bored - we break out python (a document with a few imports and a window that opens with a moving sprite included) for the ones who start getting frustrated with the scratch gui (because it's too limiting).

n3k5 7y ago

> I would like something that works uniformly across Windows, Linux desktop (such as XFCE, GNOME, KDE), and macOS. Löve [0] has a great approach to cross-platform deployment [1]. It's not exactly constrained when you compare it to QBasic, but of course using only a subset of its modules is no problem :) Of course the closest equivalent is … DosBox! Runs on basically every system, does graphics and sound and not much else :) Btw., Watcom in Open Source now [2]. IIRC Retro City Rampage 486 was made with that. [0] https://love2d.org/ https://love2d.org/ [1] https://love2d.org/wiki/Game_Distribution https://love2d.org/wiki/Game_Distribution [2] https://github.com/open-watcom/open-watcom-v2 https://github.com/open-watcom/open-watcom-v2

bananamerica 7y ago

Godot Engine exports to all these platforms with the click of a button. It is mostly lauded for its 2D capabilities. 3D can be hit or miss.

app4soft 7y ago
Can you point me where are docs on Godot Engine export for MS-DOS?
- bananamerica 7y ago
  Sorry if I'm mistaken, but I was answering to the comment by yori[1], and he/she did not request for MS-DOS support. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21773396 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21773396
  - app4soft 7y ago
    I see. BTW, there was one such request: > inb4 users ask for an MS-DOS port of #GodotEngine [0] https://mastodon.technology/@GodotEngineBot/100805699692234543 https://mastodon.technology/@GodotEngineBot/1008056996922345...

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

zonidjan 7y ago

Errrrr... dosbox?

yori 7y ago
What's wrong with dosbox? Please elaborate.
- zonidjan 7y ago
  > Is there an equivalent like that now for game development? dosbox is your equivalent.
dredmorbius 7y ago
https://www.dosbox.com https://www.dosbox.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOSBox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOSBox
- zonidjan 7y ago
  Yes, I know what dosbox is, thank you. That's ... why I mentioned it ...

thedaemon 7y ago

https://www.portal.qb64.org/ https://www.portal.qb64.org/ https://www.freebasic.net/ https://www.freebasic.net/ QB64 maintains compatibility with QuickBasic (mostly) and can compile to DOS. FreeBASIC has newer bits added for a more modern approach.

drinfinity 7y ago

Target the NES or SNES. Emulators are tiny and work on all platforms. Bundle one.

qxga 7y ago

Here's a somewhat obscure one that fits your description: http://www.headcannon.com/HCGE/ http://www.headcannon.com/HCGE/ >The Headcannon Game Engine, HCGE for short, has been in development for over a decade by an '80s kid raised with classic computer and game console hardware. Borne from a deep fascination with these machines and a thorough respect for the developers who could make the best of them, HCGE is highly specialized for getting the most out of the 2D realm on today's hardware; Retro sensibility meets modern raw power!