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It's a huge problem that makes the hypocrisy argument palpable when thousands of climate scientists fly across the world every year for conferences on climate c

It's a huge problem that makes the hypocrisy argument palpable when thousands of climate scientists fly across the world every year for conferences on climate change. Teleconferences should be a thing for nearly everyone but the presenters, but it'll never happen because of prestige and elitism.

tharne 7y ago
This hypocrisy is a reoccurring issue with most people who favor coercive political solutions to problems instead of voluntary and cooperative ones. When people make arguments like "taxes should be higher" or "air travel should be more expensive", they almost always mean "for other people". People need to eat their own cooking or they instantly lose all credibility, even when the facts are on their side.
- icebraining 7y ago
  No, they mean "for all", rather than just for the patsies sacrificing themselves so that others can just consume more.
- unionize 7y ago
  Taxes aren’t coercive (unless you’re a Galt’s Gulch Randian, I suppose), and I’m sorry, but would you rather deal with driving a more efficient car or millions of immigrants trying desperately to escape drought, war, and famine after it’s too late? If climate change really is the looming disaster it seems to be (and I personally think we’re fucked), then yeah, sorry, governments might have to do some things you find unpleasant. That’s the price we pay for unfettered consumption for generations. It might be time to pay the piper. Also, it’s really hard to live in the modern world without using fossil fuel-based comforts. You can criticize air travel and still travel to a climate conference. It doesn’t make climate change any less real. You can maybe argue that people are hypocrites, but so what? The ice caps don’t give a shit. And maybe that meeting of scientists in-person is what it takes to fix a really big global problem. Flying to Asia every year for a vacation definitely won’t do that, though.
  - tharne 7y ago
    I never argued that climate change isn't real or that nothing should be done about. My point was simply that when people behave in a hypocritical manner, they tend to lose all credibility even when they're right, and they hurt the credibility of those around them who are making the same argument. It's like an anti-halo effect. Every Hollywood actor demanding we take action on climate change while flying around in a private jet weakens the argument for real action on climate change. It makes the issue look like a vanity cause even though it's not. You see the same thing on taxes. You've got guys like Bernie Sanders out there demanding we all pay more taxes while he himself has a very low rate of charitable giving by most standards. He could also opt to voluntarily pay more taxes right now. Of course he doesn't, which again undercuts any broader point he may have. Human beings are hardwired to be turned off by hypocrisy.
- take_a_breath 7y ago
  I'm not sure there is hypocrisy if they believe gathering together will ultimately lead to solutions that lower future carbon emissions. It could be viewed as an investment in future lower emissions, the same way spending money on R&D today can improve profits in the future. Even voluntary and cooperative solutions would benefit from the type of coordination an in-person conference affords.

tharne 7y ago

This hypocrisy is a reoccurring issue with most people who favor coercive political solutions to problems instead of voluntary and cooperative ones. When people make arguments like "taxes should be higher" or "air travel should be more expensive", they almost always mean "for other people". People need to eat their own cooking or they instantly lose all credibility, even when the facts are on their side.

icebraining 7y ago
No, they mean "for all", rather than just for the patsies sacrificing themselves so that others can just consume more.
unionize 7y ago
Taxes aren’t coercive (unless you’re a Galt’s Gulch Randian, I suppose), and I’m sorry, but would you rather deal with driving a more efficient car or millions of immigrants trying desperately to escape drought, war, and famine after it’s too late? If climate change really is the looming disaster it seems to be (and I personally think we’re fucked), then yeah, sorry, governments might have to do some things you find unpleasant. That’s the price we pay for unfettered consumption for generations. It might be time to pay the piper. Also, it’s really hard to live in the modern world without using fossil fuel-based comforts. You can criticize air travel and still travel to a climate conference. It doesn’t make climate change any less real. You can maybe argue that people are hypocrites, but so what? The ice caps don’t give a shit. And maybe that meeting of scientists in-person is what it takes to fix a really big global problem. Flying to Asia every year for a vacation definitely won’t do that, though.
- tharne 7y ago
  I never argued that climate change isn't real or that nothing should be done about. My point was simply that when people behave in a hypocritical manner, they tend to lose all credibility even when they're right, and they hurt the credibility of those around them who are making the same argument. It's like an anti-halo effect. Every Hollywood actor demanding we take action on climate change while flying around in a private jet weakens the argument for real action on climate change. It makes the issue look like a vanity cause even though it's not. You see the same thing on taxes. You've got guys like Bernie Sanders out there demanding we all pay more taxes while he himself has a very low rate of charitable giving by most standards. He could also opt to voluntarily pay more taxes right now. Of course he doesn't, which again undercuts any broader point he may have. Human beings are hardwired to be turned off by hypocrisy.
take_a_breath 7y ago
I'm not sure there is hypocrisy if they believe gathering together will ultimately lead to solutions that lower future carbon emissions. It could be viewed as an investment in future lower emissions, the same way spending money on R&D today can improve profits in the future. Even voluntary and cooperative solutions would benefit from the type of coordination an in-person conference affords.