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I searched this article on reddit to see how the usual left leaning subreddits are reacting to it and was surprised to see it is nowhere to be found. Truly both

by pgo 7y ago

I searched this article on reddit to see how the usual left leaning subreddits are reacting to it and was surprised to see it is nowhere to be found. Truly both sides are living in their own echo chambers

habnds 7y ago
curious which subreddits those are.
- busymom0 7y ago
  politics sub being one. 2 of the posts made by others were removed for being “off topic” in that sub. Others were downvoted to oblivion. I won’t comment further as I prefer HN to not get too political.
NopeNotToday 7y ago
So far, the article was posted in 37 different subs. The highest upvotes: /r/politics - 155 karma /r/libertarian - 49 karma /r/conservative - 34 karma I'm not trying to make any case for any side here. Just providing some numbers.
- CompanionCuuube 7y ago
  So what are those results, normalized for active users?
  - NopeNotToday 7y ago
    I have no idea how to compute active users. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that the karma number meant anything, relative to each subreddit. IMO, pro-Trump/anti-Trump news is keeping many other important topics off the front page.
  - coolspot 7y ago
    No, those are absolute numbers. /r/politics is default sub-reddit, so every user is subscribed to it unless manually opted out. r/politics/ - 5.6M members r/conservative/ - 275K members r/libertarian/ - 349K members
    - busymom0 7y ago
      Like I pointed out in another comment, these numbers are useless comparison if it excludes T_D. T_D had multiple threads on this with 5-6k upvotes and thousands of comments since Monday. They even had a stickied post for the entire day on Monday as well as Wednesday when Horowitz testified. Their votes and sub count are throttled so I would expect the real number to be much higher.
      - NopeNotToday 7y ago
        Two different things here. The person I replied to said that every reddit was ignoring this specific article "I searched this article on reddit". My point was to show that that specific article was covered across 37 different subreddits. My conclusion would be that this specific NYT article didn't get much traction on any subreddit, due to the lack or relative upvotes. That said, there are dozens of FISA posts on many of the political subreddits, typically linking to others sites, not the NYT article. The T_D has been very vocal about the FISA abuses, as they should be. Apparently T_D can't link to this specific article due to subreddit specific rules. So I can't really compare this specific NYT article. Plus comparing the # of upvotes across subreddits has a lot of other issues. IMO, this recent abuse is due to the lack of transparency in the entire FISA process. There shouldn't be secret courts ordering secret wiretaps on Americans with no oversight. The whole program should be scrapped. Tell your reps to vote it down next time.
- drak0n1c 7y ago
  An important context is the amount of karma the popular posts get on those subreddits (proxy for engagement size), and the up/down ratio on the specific links.
- busymom0 7y ago
  Try comparing it to T_D posts on this topic. Without that, your comparison is useless.
  - yonaguska 7y ago
    T_D bans linking directly to sites deemed left leaning. Instead you would post an archived version of the article. It might be difficult to do that analysis given the hoops for posting. r/politics does the same for news deemed right leaning.
    - busymom0 7y ago
      You are right, T_D only allows archive versions of NYTimes. With that said, they had multiple threads on this with 5-6k upvotes and thousands of comments since Monday. They even had a stickied post for the entire day on Monday as well as Wednesday when Horowitz testified. Their votes are throttled so I would expect the real number to be much higher.
  - NopeNotToday 7y ago
    I tried searching for the article on T_D. I'm not getting any results (due to the quarantine?).
IfOnlyYouKnew 7y ago
I’ve read plenty about these specific criticism of the FISA system in the media I consume, which is often decried as being “left-leaning”. Indeed the article here by the New York Times is a good example. So I doubt “the left” is suppressing this issue. The IG report is pretty clear that these issues had little relevance in the investigation of Russian hacking. And if our discourse can no longer achieve this (rather low) level of nuance, we are truly lost.
- cheeseomlit 7y ago
  How can this issue possibly have 'little relevance' to the investigation, we're talking about the conduct of the investigators themselves
- blackflame 7y ago
  "Little relevance?" They failed 4 times to get a FISA warrant until the magical Steele dossier appeared. It was the entire basis for the warrant. If Trump paid for a research paper on any of the democrat candidates and then used that paper as a basis to spy on their campaign, then the democrats would actually have a reason to file impeachment charges.
guelo 7y ago
Why do you bring in the left/right partisan divide into this? The left has been criticizing the secret FISA process since the Bush Patriot Act days. The IG report did not find any evidence of political partisan spying, it only faulted the process of getting the warrant. On the other hand, as an advocate for civil liberties I'm kind of glad that this is becoming a partisan issue since Patriot Act votes in the past were unanimously supported by Republicans and by half of Democrats. Maybe now we'll get momentum to get rid of secret courts.
- maps 7y ago
  >Why do you bring in the left/right partisan divide into this? Because the right has been complaining about these specific FBI agents biased conduct in this investigation for years now and trying to turn this into a 'we all know fisa is bad' comes off as epic gaslighting. >The IG report did not find any evidence of political partisan spying, it only faulted the process of getting the warrant. This is beyond a white washing. He absolutely found evidence that line agents were biased. He did not find clear 'evidence' that the outcome and leadership was biased. The key part is that confessions and a paper trail were not found to lead him to make that conclusion. He stated he made numerous referrals to the doj/fbi about misconduct. If you actually listen to his hearing statements on the 'evidence' for bias he is walking a fine line. 'we did not have documentary or testimonial evidence that (the mistakes) were intentional, but also make note the lack of satisfactory explanations (for the mistakes), from there i cannot draw any further conclusions' - this is during a line of questions from senator whitehouse, but there are many others like it.
  - jaywalk 7y ago
    James Comey did a victory lap, claiming he was "vindicated" by the report. Horowitz was asked in the hearing if his report vindicated Comey. He was adamant that his report vindicated no one. There is definitely a concerted effort to completely mischaracterize the report's contents, mainly because it has proven that the complaining from the Republicans has actually been correct all along.
    - 7y ago
LoSboccacc 7y ago
it's a miracle this link even exist here

by pgo 7y ago

habnds 7y ago

curious which subreddits those are.

busymom0 7y ago
politics sub being one. 2 of the posts made by others were removed for being “off topic” in that sub. Others were downvoted to oblivion. I won’t comment further as I prefer HN to not get too political.

NopeNotToday 7y ago

So far, the article was posted in 37 different subs. The highest upvotes: /r/politics - 155 karma /r/libertarian - 49 karma /r/conservative - 34 karma I'm not trying to make any case for any side here. Just providing some numbers.

CompanionCuuube 7y ago
So what are those results, normalized for active users?
- NopeNotToday 7y ago
  I have no idea how to compute active users. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that the karma number meant anything, relative to each subreddit. IMO, pro-Trump/anti-Trump news is keeping many other important topics off the front page.
- coolspot 7y ago
  No, those are absolute numbers. /r/politics is default sub-reddit, so every user is subscribed to it unless manually opted out. r/politics/ - 5.6M members r/conservative/ - 275K members r/libertarian/ - 349K members
  - busymom0 7y ago
    Like I pointed out in another comment, these numbers are useless comparison if it excludes T_D. T_D had multiple threads on this with 5-6k upvotes and thousands of comments since Monday. They even had a stickied post for the entire day on Monday as well as Wednesday when Horowitz testified. Their votes and sub count are throttled so I would expect the real number to be much higher.
    - NopeNotToday 7y ago
      Two different things here. The person I replied to said that every reddit was ignoring this specific article "I searched this article on reddit". My point was to show that that specific article was covered across 37 different subreddits. My conclusion would be that this specific NYT article didn't get much traction on any subreddit, due to the lack or relative upvotes. That said, there are dozens of FISA posts on many of the political subreddits, typically linking to others sites, not the NYT article. The T_D has been very vocal about the FISA abuses, as they should be. Apparently T_D can't link to this specific article due to subreddit specific rules. So I can't really compare this specific NYT article. Plus comparing the # of upvotes across subreddits has a lot of other issues. IMO, this recent abuse is due to the lack of transparency in the entire FISA process. There shouldn't be secret courts ordering secret wiretaps on Americans with no oversight. The whole program should be scrapped. Tell your reps to vote it down next time.
drak0n1c 7y ago
An important context is the amount of karma the popular posts get on those subreddits (proxy for engagement size), and the up/down ratio on the specific links.
busymom0 7y ago
Try comparing it to T_D posts on this topic. Without that, your comparison is useless.
- yonaguska 7y ago
  T_D bans linking directly to sites deemed left leaning. Instead you would post an archived version of the article. It might be difficult to do that analysis given the hoops for posting. r/politics does the same for news deemed right leaning.
  - busymom0 7y ago
    You are right, T_D only allows archive versions of NYTimes. With that said, they had multiple threads on this with 5-6k upvotes and thousands of comments since Monday. They even had a stickied post for the entire day on Monday as well as Wednesday when Horowitz testified. Their votes are throttled so I would expect the real number to be much higher.
- NopeNotToday 7y ago
  I tried searching for the article on T_D. I'm not getting any results (due to the quarantine?).

IfOnlyYouKnew 7y ago

I’ve read plenty about these specific criticism of the FISA system in the media I consume, which is often decried as being “left-leaning”. Indeed the article here by the New York Times is a good example. So I doubt “the left” is suppressing this issue. The IG report is pretty clear that these issues had little relevance in the investigation of Russian hacking. And if our discourse can no longer achieve this (rather low) level of nuance, we are truly lost.

cheeseomlit 7y ago
How can this issue possibly have 'little relevance' to the investigation, we're talking about the conduct of the investigators themselves
blackflame 7y ago
"Little relevance?" They failed 4 times to get a FISA warrant until the magical Steele dossier appeared. It was the entire basis for the warrant. If Trump paid for a research paper on any of the democrat candidates and then used that paper as a basis to spy on their campaign, then the democrats would actually have a reason to file impeachment charges.

guelo 7y ago

Why do you bring in the left/right partisan divide into this? The left has been criticizing the secret FISA process since the Bush Patriot Act days. The IG report did not find any evidence of political partisan spying, it only faulted the process of getting the warrant. On the other hand, as an advocate for civil liberties I'm kind of glad that this is becoming a partisan issue since Patriot Act votes in the past were unanimously supported by Republicans and by half of Democrats. Maybe now we'll get momentum to get rid of secret courts.

maps 7y ago
>Why do you bring in the left/right partisan divide into this? Because the right has been complaining about these specific FBI agents biased conduct in this investigation for years now and trying to turn this into a 'we all know fisa is bad' comes off as epic gaslighting. >The IG report did not find any evidence of political partisan spying, it only faulted the process of getting the warrant. This is beyond a white washing. He absolutely found evidence that line agents were biased. He did not find clear 'evidence' that the outcome and leadership was biased. The key part is that confessions and a paper trail were not found to lead him to make that conclusion. He stated he made numerous referrals to the doj/fbi about misconduct. If you actually listen to his hearing statements on the 'evidence' for bias he is walking a fine line. 'we did not have documentary or testimonial evidence that (the mistakes) were intentional, but also make note the lack of satisfactory explanations (for the mistakes), from there i cannot draw any further conclusions' - this is during a line of questions from senator whitehouse, but there are many others like it.
- jaywalk 7y ago
  James Comey did a victory lap, claiming he was "vindicated" by the report. Horowitz was asked in the hearing if his report vindicated Comey. He was adamant that his report vindicated no one. There is definitely a concerted effort to completely mischaracterize the report's contents, mainly because it has proven that the complaining from the Republicans has actually been correct all along.
  - 7y ago

LoSboccacc 7y ago

it's a miracle this link even exist here