3 ms·

One day we won't be able to drive at all, it will be all self driving, and at that point, you'll no longer be able to do anything to avoid an accident. That wou

by dwild 7y ago

One day we won't be able to drive at all, it will be all self driving, and at that point, you'll no longer be able to do anything to avoid an accident. That would shift the default responsibility to the manufacturer and then split it with the owner if he bear a bit of responsibility too (like missing maintenance). You forget that we live in a society where we need people to use cars. Nothing force you to have a dog, nothing force you to let him loose either in a park. I hope one day it will no longer be a necessity and public transit will replace that need, but sadly, in most cities, it's pretty far from being able to.

foxyv 7y ago
I don't think they are saying "Most people shouldn't drive cars" so much as "We need to make irresponsible driving much more of a big deal." It seems like people don't take their responsibilities as drivers very seriously while pedestrians, motorcyclists, and cyclists are being killed and maimed as a result. All without much consequence to the drivers who create such an unsafe condition. Then when you ask motorists to drive responsibly they rage out at you trying to shift blame to someone else.
- dwild 7y ago
  > I don't think they are saying "Most people shouldn't drive cars" so much as "We need to make irresponsible driving much more of a big deal." I don't see how you could interpret my comment as believing that was the subject. I'm not arguing about people not taking responsibility either. I'm arguing that one day, we will no longer even have enough control over a car to be able to be responsible for it. In the current state of "self-driving car" (which is closer to a fancy cruise control) I believe you are entirely responsible for it.
  - foxyv 7y ago
    I was referring to this: > You forget that we live in a society where we need people to use cars.
nkrisc 7y ago
> You forget that we live in a society where we need people to use cars. Even if this is completely true, it does not absolve the driver of any responsibility, so I don't really see the point of bringing it up. > One day we won't be able to drive at all, it will be all self driving, and at that point, you'll no longer be able to do anything to avoid an accident. When this day comes, who the operator is may change, but there is still an operator somewhere deploying and managing these vehicles to hold accountable. If the taxi you're riding in is involved in a collision, you're not responsible.
- dwild 7y ago
  > Even if this is completely true, it does not absolve the driver of any responsibility, so I don't really see the point of bringing it up. It does if your only choice is using it or not. Being responsible is about making choice to reduce risk. If you are required to use a car to sustains the current society and you have no control over the risk of the car, how can you be the one responsible for what it does? > When this day comes, who the operator is may change, but there is still an operator somewhere deploying and managing these vehicles to hold accountable. My point is that this "operator" will be the manufacturer. > If the taxi you're riding in is involved in a collision, you're not responsible. Thanks for the perfect example to support my case. At one point owning a car will be just like going into a taxi. You wouldn't be responsible for an accident caused by the taxi driver, why would you be if it was a virtual one? Sure if you still had a wheel, but that's certainly not the future we are going toward.
asdff 7y ago
Just because you aren't driving you still control the car. You press start and control the route, and I expect self driving cars to have an emergency brake and laws require you to be present and focused to drive on the road, in contrast to the SV dream of sleeping/passed out drunk and delivered by your car. You still get a dui on a horse even if you are passed out on top and the horse is walking itself home. However if self driving cars aren't individually owned and are run by a transit agency, then the responsibility shifts to the agency who turned on the car. Just like when a train or buss hits a car. We also don't need to use cars even in cities with poor transit. Most people's car trips are biking distances. Everyone can also own a moped and enjoy 100mpg, easy parking, and experience less congestion than what the 20 foot car introduces to a city. Driving a car is a choice.
- dwild 7y ago
  > I expect self driving cars to have an emergency brake An emergency brake isn't the end of all sadly. > laws require you to be present and focused to drive on the road Sure, I'm not arguing the current state of self driving car (which I wouldn't really call self driving car, but more like fancy cruise control, on the Volt they called it adaptive cruise control, which make more sense). I'm arguing about the future without a wheel to drive. It's not happening right now, that's for sure, but Google is working on it and there's no > You still get a dui on a horse even if you are passed out on top and the horse is walking itself home. You still can act on a horse though, what made you unable to control it is your consumption (which is your responsibility not to). In a self driving car without a wheel, you no longer have any control, even if you wanted to. It may have an emergency brake, but that's can only do so much. In a world where going on a horse would cause you to be inebriated, you wouldn't get a DUI for riding one ;). > We also don't need to use cars even in cities with poor transit. Most people's car trips are biking distances. Everyone can also own a moped and enjoy 100mpg, easy parking, and experience less congestion than what the 20 foot car introduces to a city. Where do you live? Have you lived outside of there? In most cities you still need a car. Sorry for the accusation but theses sentences made it seems like you never lived outside of there. I'm close to Montreal in Quebec, even my car yesterday had trouble in some streets, believe me, even though we are lucky to have some amazing bike lane here, biking distance get thrown out of the window for the next 4 months. Walking is much slower right now, a moped would be actually illegal. I traded 2 hours of transit a day to 30 minutes by buying a car. I know so many people that currently do more than 2 hours a day, and that's in a city with a relatively good public transit in a pretty dense area. Inside most cities, you still need a car. Without cars, you couldn't support the current society. You are free to disagree that our current way of living is alright, but sadly, we can't change that easily and it will certainly not happen before self driving car become the norm.

by dwild 7y ago

foxyv 7y ago

I don't think they are saying "Most people shouldn't drive cars" so much as "We need to make irresponsible driving much more of a big deal." It seems like people don't take their responsibilities as drivers very seriously while pedestrians, motorcyclists, and cyclists are being killed and maimed as a result. All without much consequence to the drivers who create such an unsafe condition. Then when you ask motorists to drive responsibly they rage out at you trying to shift blame to someone else.

dwild 7y ago
> I don't think they are saying "Most people shouldn't drive cars" so much as "We need to make irresponsible driving much more of a big deal." I don't see how you could interpret my comment as believing that was the subject. I'm not arguing about people not taking responsibility either. I'm arguing that one day, we will no longer even have enough control over a car to be able to be responsible for it. In the current state of "self-driving car" (which is closer to a fancy cruise control) I believe you are entirely responsible for it.
- foxyv 7y ago
  I was referring to this: > You forget that we live in a society where we need people to use cars.

nkrisc 7y ago

> You forget that we live in a society where we need people to use cars. Even if this is completely true, it does not absolve the driver of any responsibility, so I don't really see the point of bringing it up. > One day we won't be able to drive at all, it will be all self driving, and at that point, you'll no longer be able to do anything to avoid an accident. When this day comes, who the operator is may change, but there is still an operator somewhere deploying and managing these vehicles to hold accountable. If the taxi you're riding in is involved in a collision, you're not responsible.

dwild 7y ago
> Even if this is completely true, it does not absolve the driver of any responsibility, so I don't really see the point of bringing it up. It does if your only choice is using it or not. Being responsible is about making choice to reduce risk. If you are required to use a car to sustains the current society and you have no control over the risk of the car, how can you be the one responsible for what it does? > When this day comes, who the operator is may change, but there is still an operator somewhere deploying and managing these vehicles to hold accountable. My point is that this "operator" will be the manufacturer. > If the taxi you're riding in is involved in a collision, you're not responsible. Thanks for the perfect example to support my case. At one point owning a car will be just like going into a taxi. You wouldn't be responsible for an accident caused by the taxi driver, why would you be if it was a virtual one? Sure if you still had a wheel, but that's certainly not the future we are going toward.

asdff 7y ago

Just because you aren't driving you still control the car. You press start and control the route, and I expect self driving cars to have an emergency brake and laws require you to be present and focused to drive on the road, in contrast to the SV dream of sleeping/passed out drunk and delivered by your car. You still get a dui on a horse even if you are passed out on top and the horse is walking itself home. However if self driving cars aren't individually owned and are run by a transit agency, then the responsibility shifts to the agency who turned on the car. Just like when a train or buss hits a car. We also don't need to use cars even in cities with poor transit. Most people's car trips are biking distances. Everyone can also own a moped and enjoy 100mpg, easy parking, and experience less congestion than what the 20 foot car introduces to a city. Driving a car is a choice.

dwild 7y ago
> I expect self driving cars to have an emergency brake An emergency brake isn't the end of all sadly. > laws require you to be present and focused to drive on the road Sure, I'm not arguing the current state of self driving car (which I wouldn't really call self driving car, but more like fancy cruise control, on the Volt they called it adaptive cruise control, which make more sense). I'm arguing about the future without a wheel to drive. It's not happening right now, that's for sure, but Google is working on it and there's no > You still get a dui on a horse even if you are passed out on top and the horse is walking itself home. You still can act on a horse though, what made you unable to control it is your consumption (which is your responsibility not to). In a self driving car without a wheel, you no longer have any control, even if you wanted to. It may have an emergency brake, but that's can only do so much. In a world where going on a horse would cause you to be inebriated, you wouldn't get a DUI for riding one ;). > We also don't need to use cars even in cities with poor transit. Most people's car trips are biking distances. Everyone can also own a moped and enjoy 100mpg, easy parking, and experience less congestion than what the 20 foot car introduces to a city. Where do you live? Have you lived outside of there? In most cities you still need a car. Sorry for the accusation but theses sentences made it seems like you never lived outside of there. I'm close to Montreal in Quebec, even my car yesterday had trouble in some streets, believe me, even though we are lucky to have some amazing bike lane here, biking distance get thrown out of the window for the next 4 months. Walking is much slower right now, a moped would be actually illegal. I traded 2 hours of transit a day to 30 minutes by buying a car. I know so many people that currently do more than 2 hours a day, and that's in a city with a relatively good public transit in a pretty dense area. Inside most cities, you still need a car. Without cars, you couldn't support the current society. You are free to disagree that our current way of living is alright, but sadly, we can't change that easily and it will certainly not happen before self driving car become the norm.