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Interesting. Whenever there is talk about pedestrianizing a street in my town, the usual suspects immediately claim that this will make local businesses go ban

Interesting. Whenever there is talk about pedestrianizing a street in my town, the usual suspects immediately claim that this will make local businesses go bankrupt since "people can't drive up to them". Never mind that stopping isn't allowed anyway on those streets. I don't understand the logic.

52-6F-62 7y ago
Toronto? We literally had an outspoken opponent of a traffic reduction program (not even totally car-free) build an ice statue that flipped the bird to passers-by in protest. In the end I think he cost himself business because of his attitude. You're not alone in not understanding. The program (called the King St Pilot Project here in TO) has made taking that street as a transit user and pedestrian far more palatable.
- spookybones 7y ago
  Amazing. Sounds like a Parks and Recreation episode.
- wmil 7y ago
  Here's what the problem was. The King St Project dramatically improved transit. Tens of thousands of people were getting home earlier. This was good for riders. However there were a few nice but not noteworthy restaurants that got a lot of evening customers who were people waiting for King St to get moving and decided to give up and have dinner or a few drinks. Think of it along the lines of airport restaurants suffering due to reduced flight delays and reliably fast security clearance.
  - 52-6F-62 7y ago
    That runs counter to the data I’d previously seen. Business owners claimed spending went down when it was reported as going up. https://globalnews.ca/news/4390635/king-street-pilot-project-ridership-reliability-data-may-june-2018/ https://globalnews.ca/news/4390635/king-street-pilot-project... Or see the city’s YoY report, page 16: https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/8fb5-TS_King-Street-Annual-Dashboard_Final.pdf https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/8fb5-TS_Ki... The restaurants that suffered were belonged to the fellow I mentioned and those that aligned themselves with him. He was already a bit of a notorious blowhard. What you’re describing is what they claimed would happen, but didn’t because more people were encouraged to spend time there. Even anecdotally I certainly spend more time there after films than I otherwise did because it’s so much better to move through rather than a total blockade of cars every single day rendering it basically a non-consideration—at least on our part.
dazc 7y ago
I work in a small town in the UK that is being slowly killed by people driving through the centre either looking for a free parking spot of just because it shortens their journey by a minute or so. And yes, these are the people who believe their freedom to do so is what's keeping the town alive - despite much evidence to the contrary (ie. many closed down businesses).
noobermin 7y ago
Americans are really unaware to how cars ruins cities, particularly how much of the cities after urban renewal were demolished instead of improved to make room for the six lane sroads.

52-6F-62 7y ago

Toronto? We literally had an outspoken opponent of a traffic reduction program (not even totally car-free) build an ice statue that flipped the bird to passers-by in protest. In the end I think he cost himself business because of his attitude. You're not alone in not understanding. The program (called the King St Pilot Project here in TO) has made taking that street as a transit user and pedestrian far more palatable.

spookybones 7y ago
Amazing. Sounds like a Parks and Recreation episode.
wmil 7y ago
Here's what the problem was. The King St Project dramatically improved transit. Tens of thousands of people were getting home earlier. This was good for riders. However there were a few nice but not noteworthy restaurants that got a lot of evening customers who were people waiting for King St to get moving and decided to give up and have dinner or a few drinks. Think of it along the lines of airport restaurants suffering due to reduced flight delays and reliably fast security clearance.
- 52-6F-62 7y ago
  That runs counter to the data I’d previously seen. Business owners claimed spending went down when it was reported as going up. https://globalnews.ca/news/4390635/king-street-pilot-project-ridership-reliability-data-may-june-2018/ https://globalnews.ca/news/4390635/king-street-pilot-project... Or see the city’s YoY report, page 16: https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/8fb5-TS_King-Street-Annual-Dashboard_Final.pdf https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/8fb5-TS_Ki... The restaurants that suffered were belonged to the fellow I mentioned and those that aligned themselves with him. He was already a bit of a notorious blowhard. What you’re describing is what they claimed would happen, but didn’t because more people were encouraged to spend time there. Even anecdotally I certainly spend more time there after films than I otherwise did because it’s so much better to move through rather than a total blockade of cars every single day rendering it basically a non-consideration—at least on our part.

dazc 7y ago

I work in a small town in the UK that is being slowly killed by people driving through the centre either looking for a free parking spot of just because it shortens their journey by a minute or so. And yes, these are the people who believe their freedom to do so is what's keeping the town alive - despite much evidence to the contrary (ie. many closed down businesses).

noobermin 7y ago

Americans are really unaware to how cars ruins cities, particularly how much of the cities after urban renewal were demolished instead of improved to make room for the six lane sroads.