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The goal is to appear to be a "integrative" bargainer, while actually bargaining for your own position. There is no "1 size fits all" negotiation strategy, and

The goal is to appear to be a "integrative" bargainer, while actually bargaining for your own position. There is no "1 size fits all" negotiation strategy, and while I appreciate the article for what its attempting to do, going into a negotiation with the intent on making everyone happy is likely going to end with you being the unhappy one. This is why when you buy a car, (In the US anyway) you usually "negotiate" with a sales person, who will be running to a back office to relay the negotiation with the manager who is actually the decision maker. The sales person will attempt to (or sometimes even genuinely try) to be the "integrative" negotiator while the manager will act as the adversarial negotiator in the process. This can actually work in your favor on occasion, as I've had a great deal of success by understanding the mechanics of the process, and leveraging the sales persons desire to sell the car against the managers desire to make the dealership (more) money. (Usually by establishing myself as a serious buyer, walking away from a bad deal and then getting a call ~3 days later when someone needs to hit their monthly/quarterly number)

lotsofpulp 7y ago
I would say your ability to walk away is the leverage. The manager is always making the final call, and the sales person is just there to enable price discrimination so they can feel out who will cave or not.
rahimnathwani 7y ago
The interaction between the salesman and manager is often just a performance to make you think you're getting a good deal. After all, if the manager is thumping his fist on the table (which you can see through the glass), the salesman must be giving you too good a deal, right?
- wenc 7y ago
  I learned recently that there was a word for that: "kayfabe" Kayfabe [1] is a concept from wrestling, where an adversarial appearance is staged but portrayed as reality in order to get viewers interested. Kayfabe is also commonly employed in politics. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayfabe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayfabe
diN0bot 7y ago
> "The goal is to appear to be a "integrative" bargainer, while actually bargaining for your own position." Yes! I negotiate compensations on behalf of engineers (as an engineer --> tech leader --> and now technical consultant working for engineers (and tech adjacent professionals) directly, and not as a recruiter paid by companies). While accepting a job offer in terms of the total package might be "integrative" in some sense, when discussing any one component, say salary, it is very much "positional." Job negotiations tend to be among the most impactful negotiations we make, so if you're curious for my take: you absolutely want to be polite and work with the recruiter to find the offer package that works for you, but it's more about effective self-advocacy and making constructive, intentional statements than either "positional cageyness" or "integrative creativity." In my experience, general negotiation advice doesn't generally apply to heavily imbalanced job/salary negotiations. Companies have more information, authority and experience when it comes to job negotiations, so leveling the playing field means increasing your information, leverage and practice in specific ways. It's not like buying a car or selling a rug... you're beginning a long-term relationship with extremely high stakes! This comment is maybe less helpful than I intended, so if you'd like to learn more, send me a note and I'll make a better attempt at sharing more concrete tips and scripts.
- bitcoinmoney 7y ago
  Can you share the tips here for everyone to see?
Ididntdothis 7y ago
I always thought the sales man/sales manager thing is just an act. I wouldn't be too surprised if the sales manager didn't even exist or care about about the deal. I have heard this described as "higher authority". The person who does the talking never makes a decision directly but always defers to a real or pretended higher authority like a wife, boss, company board or whatever. Seems like a variation of good cop/bad cop. Walking away while keeping the door open is almost always the most powerful negotiation technique.
- smogcutter 7y ago
  I’ve gotten some entertainment out of browsing r/askcarsales on reddit, and if the folks there are to be believed it’s definitely not an act (at car dealerships, at least). While there are definitely times where the salesman goes into the office and pretends to talk while they check fantasy football scores, it’s also true that the manager needs to approve every deal and he often has very different incentives than the salesman.
- techslave 7y ago
  no, GP is correct. only in the tiniest 2-3 man lots does the salesperson also set the price.
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    This may be true but I think there is definitely an element of wearing people down. Last time I bought a car I t9ld the salesperson to just call the manager in so we could duke it out in five minutes instead of him walking back and forth and making me wait each time. He wouldn’t do that.

lotsofpulp 7y ago

I would say your ability to walk away is the leverage. The manager is always making the final call, and the sales person is just there to enable price discrimination so they can feel out who will cave or not.

rahimnathwani 7y ago

The interaction between the salesman and manager is often just a performance to make you think you're getting a good deal. After all, if the manager is thumping his fist on the table (which you can see through the glass), the salesman must be giving you too good a deal, right?

wenc 7y ago
I learned recently that there was a word for that: "kayfabe" Kayfabe [1] is a concept from wrestling, where an adversarial appearance is staged but portrayed as reality in order to get viewers interested. Kayfabe is also commonly employed in politics. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayfabe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayfabe

diN0bot 7y ago

> "The goal is to appear to be a "integrative" bargainer, while actually bargaining for your own position." Yes! I negotiate compensations on behalf of engineers (as an engineer --> tech leader --> and now technical consultant working for engineers (and tech adjacent professionals) directly, and not as a recruiter paid by companies). While accepting a job offer in terms of the total package might be "integrative" in some sense, when discussing any one component, say salary, it is very much "positional." Job negotiations tend to be among the most impactful negotiations we make, so if you're curious for my take: you absolutely want to be polite and work with the recruiter to find the offer package that works for you, but it's more about effective self-advocacy and making constructive, intentional statements than either "positional cageyness" or "integrative creativity." In my experience, general negotiation advice doesn't generally apply to heavily imbalanced job/salary negotiations. Companies have more information, authority and experience when it comes to job negotiations, so leveling the playing field means increasing your information, leverage and practice in specific ways. It's not like buying a car or selling a rug... you're beginning a long-term relationship with extremely high stakes! This comment is maybe less helpful than I intended, so if you'd like to learn more, send me a note and I'll make a better attempt at sharing more concrete tips and scripts.

bitcoinmoney 7y ago
Can you share the tips here for everyone to see?

Ididntdothis 7y ago

I always thought the sales man/sales manager thing is just an act. I wouldn't be too surprised if the sales manager didn't even exist or care about about the deal. I have heard this described as "higher authority". The person who does the talking never makes a decision directly but always defers to a real or pretended higher authority like a wife, boss, company board or whatever. Seems like a variation of good cop/bad cop. Walking away while keeping the door open is almost always the most powerful negotiation technique.

smogcutter 7y ago
I’ve gotten some entertainment out of browsing r/askcarsales on reddit, and if the folks there are to be believed it’s definitely not an act (at car dealerships, at least). While there are definitely times where the salesman goes into the office and pretends to talk while they check fantasy football scores, it’s also true that the manager needs to approve every deal and he often has very different incentives than the salesman.
techslave 7y ago
no, GP is correct. only in the tiniest 2-3 man lots does the salesperson also set the price.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  This may be true but I think there is definitely an element of wearing people down. Last time I bought a car I t9ld the salesperson to just call the manager in so we could duke it out in five minutes instead of him walking back and forth and making me wait each time. He wouldn’t do that.