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To add to this (writing too much today), most people you will encounter have a positional bargaining approach because it's the default position of a buyer menta

To add to this (writing too much today), most people you will encounter have a positional bargaining approach because it's the default position of a buyer mentality. Persuading them to see value in an interest based approach is a lot of work and the biggest risk is they will walk away and find someone else they can bully. You dodged a bullet, but also the value was destroyed. The more recent work on negotiations includes things like salience models, which are more about building coalitions to apply leverage on a point person instead of persuading them with reason and principle. It reflects reality better. Enterprise sales are a good example, where instead of just winning a feature bake off or doing a good pitch, you need a full coalition of parties to prevail over the alternatives and move the sale forward. This makes sales more of a complex political campaign than arguing and demonstrating to win a judgment and verdict. The strategy in these negotiations is different, and more about eliciting information about needs and motives of coalition parties to align them toward your decision. The tactics involve some traditional negotiation techniques like inventing options and proposing if/then points of incremental agreement, but they are part of a more abstract play. So, learn negotiation , but short version: the map is not the territory and the fastest way to select-out is to go in with expectations that people conform to a map.

wenc 7y ago
How does one learn more about these topics outside of googling -- which I just did? (i.e. salience models and building coalitions) I have to do this daily -- and I'm learning as I go -- but I'm finding books like Getting to Yes (with BATNA and all that) to be a little too theoretical.
- motohagiography 7y ago
  DeMesquita's predictioneer papers and books, Pfeffer's books on power and management, then more old school would be cialdini's influence. a16z's more pragmatic guide that includes this idea of using upstream interests to close the sale (https://a16z.com/2014/05/30/selling-saas-products-dont-sell-themselves/ https://a16z.com/2014/05/30/selling-saas-products-dont-sell-...)
- scottm01 7y ago
  I’m certainly just learning myself, but quite enjoyed Never Split the Difference... https://info.blackswanltd.com/never-split-the-difference https://info.blackswanltd.com/never-split-the-difference
  - BeetleB 7y ago
    One day I'll write a detailed review of Never Split The Difference. It's both a great and a terrible book. Do read it, but keep the following in mind: Ignore all his complaints about MBA/Ivy league programs and how they teach negotiations. A lot of what he accuses them of are not true - he mostly sets up strawmen arguments against them. The majority of his book is in alignment with what those other books/programs teach, including many of the cases where he claims otherwise. Consider his rationale for criticizing other books so much. He could have simply written his own book on negotiation without spending so many pages throughout the book complaining about other books. Why does he do this? He's playing psychological/marketing games with the reader. Similar to the dialogue in Thank You For Smoking: Joey (the son): so what happens when you're wrong? Nick: OK, let's say that you're defending chocolate, and I'm defending vanilla. Now if I were to say to you: 'Vanilla is the best flavour ice-cream', you'd say... Joey: No, chocolate is. (dialogue goes on for a while) Joey: ...but you didn't prove that vanilla was the best... Nick: I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right. Chris Voss seems to be playing that game: He's trying to elevate his book by claiming other books are wrong. The other thing about the book: It works well in a somewhat narrow scope. In particular, some of the advice in the book will damage relationships. This isn't surprising, given his whole negotiation career involved scenarios where he would not have a continuing relationship with his counterpart on the other side. As an example, his tip on "But how do I do this?" My last manager was very skilled in getting her way with this approach. Within a year of her becoming the manager 3 people had left the team. Sure the tactic works initially, but people will wise up to it if you use it often, and they resent the mind games involved. A good negotiations book will differentiate between strategies where the relationship is important vs one where it isn't. Not to deter you from reading the book. It does have some pretty good advice I've not found in other books. And it definitely is more practical than other ones. Just do not stop after reading it.
- biolurker1 7y ago
  There is a nice coursera or edx course on negotiations

wenc 7y ago

How does one learn more about these topics outside of googling -- which I just did? (i.e. salience models and building coalitions) I have to do this daily -- and I'm learning as I go -- but I'm finding books like Getting to Yes (with BATNA and all that) to be a little too theoretical.

motohagiography 7y ago
DeMesquita's predictioneer papers and books, Pfeffer's books on power and management, then more old school would be cialdini's influence. a16z's more pragmatic guide that includes this idea of using upstream interests to close the sale (https://a16z.com/2014/05/30/selling-saas-products-dont-sell-themselves/ https://a16z.com/2014/05/30/selling-saas-products-dont-sell-...)
scottm01 7y ago
I’m certainly just learning myself, but quite enjoyed Never Split the Difference... https://info.blackswanltd.com/never-split-the-difference https://info.blackswanltd.com/never-split-the-difference
- BeetleB 7y ago
  One day I'll write a detailed review of Never Split The Difference. It's both a great and a terrible book. Do read it, but keep the following in mind: Ignore all his complaints about MBA/Ivy league programs and how they teach negotiations. A lot of what he accuses them of are not true - he mostly sets up strawmen arguments against them. The majority of his book is in alignment with what those other books/programs teach, including many of the cases where he claims otherwise. Consider his rationale for criticizing other books so much. He could have simply written his own book on negotiation without spending so many pages throughout the book complaining about other books. Why does he do this? He's playing psychological/marketing games with the reader. Similar to the dialogue in Thank You For Smoking: Joey (the son): so what happens when you're wrong? Nick: OK, let's say that you're defending chocolate, and I'm defending vanilla. Now if I were to say to you: 'Vanilla is the best flavour ice-cream', you'd say... Joey: No, chocolate is. (dialogue goes on for a while) Joey: ...but you didn't prove that vanilla was the best... Nick: I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right. Chris Voss seems to be playing that game: He's trying to elevate his book by claiming other books are wrong. The other thing about the book: It works well in a somewhat narrow scope. In particular, some of the advice in the book will damage relationships. This isn't surprising, given his whole negotiation career involved scenarios where he would not have a continuing relationship with his counterpart on the other side. As an example, his tip on "But how do I do this?" My last manager was very skilled in getting her way with this approach. Within a year of her becoming the manager 3 people had left the team. Sure the tactic works initially, but people will wise up to it if you use it often, and they resent the mind games involved. A good negotiations book will differentiate between strategies where the relationship is important vs one where it isn't. Not to deter you from reading the book. It does have some pretty good advice I've not found in other books. And it definitely is more practical than other ones. Just do not stop after reading it.
biolurker1 7y ago
There is a nice coursera or edx course on negotiations