10 ms·

Part of the change is due to the appearance of alternative powered vehicles. In Tokyo, it seems like every mother is riding an electric cargo bike with covered

Part of the change is due to the appearance of alternative powered vehicles. In Tokyo, it seems like every mother is riding an electric cargo bike with covered seating for two kids and room for groceries -- the minivan of bicycles. In Seattle, the morning commute is full of electric skateboards, scooters, onewheels, and wheelchairs. It looks doable.

SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
How do those work in winter? We had electric scooters, but they were all scooped up by their parent companies in October ahead of the coming months of hell.
- tomtheelder 7y ago
  Mostly fine, sometimes a problem. It's pretty much like regular bikes (or cars for that matter): some might not work well if there is significant snow/ice, but then you will just need one that is suitable for those sort of conditions. The scooter companies are putting out very low end models that aren't designed for any sort of adverse conditions, and they are scared of lawsuits/blowback from accidents. This sort of transportation is in its infancy. Bikes are in a better place, and we have bikes that can ride fairly safely on full on snow.
  - wcarron 7y ago
    I hope e-scooters never make it out of infancy. Bikes are infinitely more practical and capable. They are more stable at all speeds. They can have significantly more cargo carrying capacity. Bikes can be fitted (for the most part) with different tires/wheels to handle adverse conditions more easily than a scooter can. I hope for the infanticide of e-scooter transportation. It's a grotesque, subooptimal solution than exists in spite of a superior low-cost offering that is faaaar more mature.
    - mikestew 7y ago
      I have several examples of both, and ride them to work and shopping. And I completely agree with you. Scooters are a hoot to ride, and if I don’t have to carry more than my backpack will hold, I’d rather commute on the scooter. But you need both hands, making even signaling a chore, and you can only carry what fits on your back. Scooters are no more difficult to ride than a bicycle, but they are much more difficult to ride safely than a bicycle. Compare to my electric bike with front and rear racks, a rack trunk, and a comfy seat and coffee cup holder. Scooters pack small, that’s about the only utilitarian plus they have going IMO.
    - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
      I bought a non-electric, but large-wheeled kick scooter a few months ago for getting around NYC. I absolutely love it. Bikes are a little annoying to stop and start; "walking" your bike for a short stretch requires physically dismounting. My scooter allows me to constantly transition between standing, walking, and riding as environmental conditions require. Also... it's stupid, but if I have to wear a helmet to do something, I'm not going to do it. I can't imagine riding a bike without a helmet, because it would be too easy to hit a bump and fall over. On my scooter, however, I feel relatively safe without a helmet. There have been a couple times when I've lost control of my scooter for some reason or another, but because I'm basically standing, I've just kind of jumped off.
      - mntmoss 7y ago
        I basically agree. In my experience as a rider of one, the main downside of urban kick scooters is that they lack infrastructure. They're too slow to be bikes and play in traffic, but their existence tends to offend and frighten pedestrians, even though their control over acceleration is quite good, about as good as someone running. That quality makes them chimerical, one of the most unpredictable users of the road, and one of the factors in me hanging it up was having my day ruined by people getting upset at me. The biggest real dangers come from grooves and potholes(I took a spill that needed stitches in my younger days, trying to ride inside a groove) and from using pedestrian infrastructure at speed(cross-traffic can lead to near-misses where the car doesn't expect you to jump out so fast, or the bike expects you to plow through and you stop instead). The electrics are a nifty invention, but also one that makes their character more like bikes. They fit in a little better as all-purpose transports, but they also lack the simple convenience of a light kick scooter.
- amwelles 7y ago
  With the right gear, cycling in winter isn’t bad at all, provided the path is clear.
  - tachyonbeam 7y ago
    Anecdotal, but I've ridden a bike in winter only once. There was a lot of melted snow "slush". I almost slipped twice. One of those two times, I was right in front of a car when my back wheel slid off to the side, and I caught myself from falling just in time. I've never done it again, it seems suicidal to me. It was a mountain-style bike, and I would have assumed the tires had enough grip. I'm sure you can pick up tricks and get better at this with experience, but it seems at least an order of magnitude more dangerous than summer time biking.
    - aeharding 7y ago
      Studded bike tires are common in bike friendly, cold cities. Work great with ice. It's all about the right tool for the job. Although what a lot of winter bike commuters do in my city is go by bike 95% of the winter, and take the bus when the conditions are really bad.
    - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
      It really seems to be an activity that takes a special type of person to enjoy - my wife, being an avid summer biker, tried winter biking a single time, and came back with a giant bruise on her knee and a bent pedal and swore never again.
    - shoes_for_thee 7y ago
      I biked every day of the year for about ten years in NYC with an average commute of about six miles each way. This included a ride over either Manhattan or Williamsburg bridge, which get icy faster and stay slushy longer than terrestrial roads. Always on regular 23c or 25c road tires. I usually fell over about once per winter, which always kind of sucked. But by my estimation, riding the subway was a more miserable kind of experience. You slide around a bit but you get used to it. The bike is usually but not always more stable than it feels.
- srhngpr 7y ago
  You must be from Calgary! Unfortunately, scooters and bikes won't work when there is so much snow during the winter.
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    That's downright insulting! I'm from Edmonton. Yeah, I fear we have too much snow - while bicycles can still be used by the most stubborn, electric vehicles can't summon up that curmudgeonly spirit that will get them out of every second snow drift.
    - srhngpr 7y ago
      I'm very sorry to hear that! coming from a Vancouverite. I spend a decent chunk of the year in Calgary for work and last year they kept the Lime bikes during the winter and on non-snow days, it was actually useful for getting around downtown. But this year they got rid of those too. Car2go is no longer in Calgary either, so transportation options are super limited.
      - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
        > I'm very sorry to hear that! coming from a Vancouverite. Not even made - given everything going on, I'm sincerely thinking about heading out that way myself.
  - mixmastamyk 7y ago
    Not entirely true: https://www.boredpanda.com/students-bicycle-school-winter-snow-oulu-finland/ https://www.boredpanda.com/students-bicycle-school-winter-sn... However I think below zero is better for biking than near zero to avoid remelting.
  - throw0101a 7y ago
    Is Calgary any worse than Finland? * https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/never-mind-the-plows-five-things-i-learned-from-the-worlds-most-bike-friendly-winter-city https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/never-mind-the-plo... > Oulu in Finland and Winnipeg in Canada are two winter cities with remarkably different stories. Oulu is just like Winnipeg – except for the bike paths stretching for miles in every direction and the thousands of people riding bicycles in the snow – says Winter Bike to Work Day founder Anders Swanson * https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/feb/12/ice-cycles-northerly-world-cities-winter-bicycle-revolution https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/feb/12/ice-cycles-no...
- lm28469 7y ago
  Most likely because the batteries would be cold 24/7, which doesn't happen with personal bikes since you can detach them.
- mikestew 7y ago
  Seattle-area scooter rider here. I don’t ride rentals, I have a Boosted Rev and a Xiaomi M365 (what many rentals use). I don’t think the rentals and the Xiaomi are really meant to be used in the wet of a Seattle winter. Even the Rev, which touts its weather-resistance, needs a fender extender if you don’t want to get covered in crap (which makes me question how much they tested said weather-resistance). That said, it’s just another single-track vehicle like a bike, and all that comes with it. Such as, riding on ice or snow is foolish. But even if it’s just rain, reduced traction means increased chance of locking a wheel and dumping it. Hence the likely reason the rentals went away, along with who the hell is going to ride them in the rain? (Answer: people that went ahead and just bought their own.) In summary, my only complaint is that by just standing there instead of pedaling, it is kind of hard to stay warm when it is chilly. Otherwise, empty trails make for a great ride this time of year.
- davchana 7y ago
  Yes, I myself bought an elec scooter after experiencing the one in Los Angeles, & had to park it back in room because of all rain & winter.
agensaequivocum 7y ago
Not really when you have 5-7+ kids.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  Number or age? 5-7 and even 10 year olds can easily be transported by bakfiets, it happens all the time in NL, besides that when they're 10 they can cycle by themselves (earlier even).
- abyssin 7y ago
  When you have 5-7+ kids, you don't have them all at once. By the time you're having the last ones, the eldest can cycle on their own.
  - joejerryronnie 7y ago
    The anti-quint/sext/septuplet bias in this comment is astounding.
    - noobermin 7y ago
      Chasing a rabbit trail here but how many parents have >4 children in the US?
      - joejerryronnie 7y ago
        Probably less than 1%
      - taborj 7y ago
        This is a findable answer[0], though this only shows 3 or more children. Looks like 7,008,000 families have 3 or more children. Looking at the same site[1] for the number of people between, say, 15 and 49 (the thought being anyone less than 15 probably isn't a "parent" and anyone over 49 doesn't have children living at home anymore, or at least not ones they need to transport), we get 150.67 million "parents". Some quick math gets us about 4.6%. Incidentally, that's similar to the number of LGBTQ persons in the US (4.5%)[2] [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/183790/number-of-families-in-the-us-by-number-of-children/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/183790/number-of-familie... [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/241488/population-of-the-us-by-sex-and-age/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/241488/population-of-the... [2] https://news.gallup.com/poll/234863/estimate-lgbt-population-rises.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/234863/estimate-lgbt-population...

SketchySeaBeast 7y ago

How do those work in winter? We had electric scooters, but they were all scooped up by their parent companies in October ahead of the coming months of hell.

tomtheelder 7y ago
Mostly fine, sometimes a problem. It's pretty much like regular bikes (or cars for that matter): some might not work well if there is significant snow/ice, but then you will just need one that is suitable for those sort of conditions. The scooter companies are putting out very low end models that aren't designed for any sort of adverse conditions, and they are scared of lawsuits/blowback from accidents. This sort of transportation is in its infancy. Bikes are in a better place, and we have bikes that can ride fairly safely on full on snow.
- wcarron 7y ago
  I hope e-scooters never make it out of infancy. Bikes are infinitely more practical and capable. They are more stable at all speeds. They can have significantly more cargo carrying capacity. Bikes can be fitted (for the most part) with different tires/wheels to handle adverse conditions more easily than a scooter can. I hope for the infanticide of e-scooter transportation. It's a grotesque, subooptimal solution than exists in spite of a superior low-cost offering that is faaaar more mature.
  - mikestew 7y ago
    I have several examples of both, and ride them to work and shopping. And I completely agree with you. Scooters are a hoot to ride, and if I don’t have to carry more than my backpack will hold, I’d rather commute on the scooter. But you need both hands, making even signaling a chore, and you can only carry what fits on your back. Scooters are no more difficult to ride than a bicycle, but they are much more difficult to ride safely than a bicycle. Compare to my electric bike with front and rear racks, a rack trunk, and a comfy seat and coffee cup holder. Scooters pack small, that’s about the only utilitarian plus they have going IMO.
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    I bought a non-electric, but large-wheeled kick scooter a few months ago for getting around NYC. I absolutely love it. Bikes are a little annoying to stop and start; "walking" your bike for a short stretch requires physically dismounting. My scooter allows me to constantly transition between standing, walking, and riding as environmental conditions require. Also... it's stupid, but if I have to wear a helmet to do something, I'm not going to do it. I can't imagine riding a bike without a helmet, because it would be too easy to hit a bump and fall over. On my scooter, however, I feel relatively safe without a helmet. There have been a couple times when I've lost control of my scooter for some reason or another, but because I'm basically standing, I've just kind of jumped off.
    - mntmoss 7y ago
      I basically agree. In my experience as a rider of one, the main downside of urban kick scooters is that they lack infrastructure. They're too slow to be bikes and play in traffic, but their existence tends to offend and frighten pedestrians, even though their control over acceleration is quite good, about as good as someone running. That quality makes them chimerical, one of the most unpredictable users of the road, and one of the factors in me hanging it up was having my day ruined by people getting upset at me. The biggest real dangers come from grooves and potholes(I took a spill that needed stitches in my younger days, trying to ride inside a groove) and from using pedestrian infrastructure at speed(cross-traffic can lead to near-misses where the car doesn't expect you to jump out so fast, or the bike expects you to plow through and you stop instead). The electrics are a nifty invention, but also one that makes their character more like bikes. They fit in a little better as all-purpose transports, but they also lack the simple convenience of a light kick scooter.
amwelles 7y ago
With the right gear, cycling in winter isn’t bad at all, provided the path is clear.
- tachyonbeam 7y ago
  Anecdotal, but I've ridden a bike in winter only once. There was a lot of melted snow "slush". I almost slipped twice. One of those two times, I was right in front of a car when my back wheel slid off to the side, and I caught myself from falling just in time. I've never done it again, it seems suicidal to me. It was a mountain-style bike, and I would have assumed the tires had enough grip. I'm sure you can pick up tricks and get better at this with experience, but it seems at least an order of magnitude more dangerous than summer time biking.
  - aeharding 7y ago
    Studded bike tires are common in bike friendly, cold cities. Work great with ice. It's all about the right tool for the job. Although what a lot of winter bike commuters do in my city is go by bike 95% of the winter, and take the bus when the conditions are really bad.
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    It really seems to be an activity that takes a special type of person to enjoy - my wife, being an avid summer biker, tried winter biking a single time, and came back with a giant bruise on her knee and a bent pedal and swore never again.
  - shoes_for_thee 7y ago
    I biked every day of the year for about ten years in NYC with an average commute of about six miles each way. This included a ride over either Manhattan or Williamsburg bridge, which get icy faster and stay slushy longer than terrestrial roads. Always on regular 23c or 25c road tires. I usually fell over about once per winter, which always kind of sucked. But by my estimation, riding the subway was a more miserable kind of experience. You slide around a bit but you get used to it. The bike is usually but not always more stable than it feels.
srhngpr 7y ago
You must be from Calgary! Unfortunately, scooters and bikes won't work when there is so much snow during the winter.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  That's downright insulting! I'm from Edmonton. Yeah, I fear we have too much snow - while bicycles can still be used by the most stubborn, electric vehicles can't summon up that curmudgeonly spirit that will get them out of every second snow drift.
  - srhngpr 7y ago
    I'm very sorry to hear that! coming from a Vancouverite. I spend a decent chunk of the year in Calgary for work and last year they kept the Lime bikes during the winter and on non-snow days, it was actually useful for getting around downtown. But this year they got rid of those too. Car2go is no longer in Calgary either, so transportation options are super limited.
    - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
      > I'm very sorry to hear that! coming from a Vancouverite. Not even made - given everything going on, I'm sincerely thinking about heading out that way myself.
- mixmastamyk 7y ago
  Not entirely true: https://www.boredpanda.com/students-bicycle-school-winter-snow-oulu-finland/ https://www.boredpanda.com/students-bicycle-school-winter-sn... However I think below zero is better for biking than near zero to avoid remelting.
- throw0101a 7y ago
  Is Calgary any worse than Finland? * https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/never-mind-the-plows-five-things-i-learned-from-the-worlds-most-bike-friendly-winter-city https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/never-mind-the-plo... > Oulu in Finland and Winnipeg in Canada are two winter cities with remarkably different stories. Oulu is just like Winnipeg – except for the bike paths stretching for miles in every direction and the thousands of people riding bicycles in the snow – says Winter Bike to Work Day founder Anders Swanson * https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/feb/12/ice-cycles-northerly-world-cities-winter-bicycle-revolution https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/feb/12/ice-cycles-no...
lm28469 7y ago
Most likely because the batteries would be cold 24/7, which doesn't happen with personal bikes since you can detach them.
mikestew 7y ago
Seattle-area scooter rider here. I don’t ride rentals, I have a Boosted Rev and a Xiaomi M365 (what many rentals use). I don’t think the rentals and the Xiaomi are really meant to be used in the wet of a Seattle winter. Even the Rev, which touts its weather-resistance, needs a fender extender if you don’t want to get covered in crap (which makes me question how much they tested said weather-resistance). That said, it’s just another single-track vehicle like a bike, and all that comes with it. Such as, riding on ice or snow is foolish. But even if it’s just rain, reduced traction means increased chance of locking a wheel and dumping it. Hence the likely reason the rentals went away, along with who the hell is going to ride them in the rain? (Answer: people that went ahead and just bought their own.) In summary, my only complaint is that by just standing there instead of pedaling, it is kind of hard to stay warm when it is chilly. Otherwise, empty trails make for a great ride this time of year.
davchana 7y ago
Yes, I myself bought an elec scooter after experiencing the one in Los Angeles, & had to park it back in room because of all rain & winter.

agensaequivocum 7y ago

Not really when you have 5-7+ kids.

jacquesm 7y ago
Number or age? 5-7 and even 10 year olds can easily be transported by bakfiets, it happens all the time in NL, besides that when they're 10 they can cycle by themselves (earlier even).
abyssin 7y ago
When you have 5-7+ kids, you don't have them all at once. By the time you're having the last ones, the eldest can cycle on their own.
- joejerryronnie 7y ago
  The anti-quint/sext/septuplet bias in this comment is astounding.
  - noobermin 7y ago
    Chasing a rabbit trail here but how many parents have >4 children in the US?
    - joejerryronnie 7y ago
      Probably less than 1%
    - taborj 7y ago
      This is a findable answer[0], though this only shows 3 or more children. Looks like 7,008,000 families have 3 or more children. Looking at the same site[1] for the number of people between, say, 15 and 49 (the thought being anyone less than 15 probably isn't a "parent" and anyone over 49 doesn't have children living at home anymore, or at least not ones they need to transport), we get 150.67 million "parents". Some quick math gets us about 4.6%. Incidentally, that's similar to the number of LGBTQ persons in the US (4.5%)[2] [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/183790/number-of-families-in-the-us-by-number-of-children/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/183790/number-of-familie... [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/241488/population-of-the-us-by-sex-and-age/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/241488/population-of-the... [2] https://news.gallup.com/poll/234863/estimate-lgbt-population-rises.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/234863/estimate-lgbt-population...