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> Neutral source: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/washington-examiner/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/washington-examiner/ Neutral, perhaps, but also poorly qua

> Neutral source: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/washington-examiner/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/washington-examiner/ Neutral, perhaps, but also poorly qualified: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Bias/Fact_Check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Bias/Fact_Check: > The Columbia Journalism Review describes Media Bias/Fact Check as an amateur attempt at categorizing media bias and Van Zandt as an "armchair media analyst."[2] Van Zandt describes himself as someone with "more than 20 years as an arm chair researcher on media bias and its role in political influence."[3] The Poynter Institute notes, "Media Bias/Fact Check is a widely cited source for news stories and even studies about misinformation, despite the fact that its method is in no way scientific."[4]

dfsegoat 7y ago
Totally fair, thank you. But you left out some important bits from your response, including that several academic groups have used the site for building fake news classifiers: > The site has been used by researchers at the University of Michigan to create a tool called the "Iffy Quotient", which draws data from Media Bias/Fact Check and NewsWhip to track the prevalence of 'fake news' and questionable sources on social media. The site was also used by a research group at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in initial training of an AI to fact check and detect the bias on a website. [3] Despite publications in academia using the site, you may also note the following: > In 2016, Kyle Pope, who had served as the editor in chief of The New York Observer, was announced as the new editor and publisher of [Columbia Journalism Review]. [1] > In 2016, the New York Observer became notable for being one of only a handful of newspapers to officially endorse United States presidential candidate Donald Trump in the Republican Party presidential primaries.[18] The newspaper's owner and then publisher, Jared Kushner, is Donald Trump's son-in-law. [2] ...I'm not sure what to think of the above pedigree for CJR's editor, but IMO I suspect he either fell to one end of the political spectrum or the other. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Journalism_Review#Editor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Journalism_Review#Edi... 2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Observer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Observer 3 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Bias/Fact_Check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Bias/Fact_Check
- CharlesColeman 7y ago
  > But you left out some important bits from your response, including that several academic groups have used the site for building fake news classifiers No I didn't. My quote from Wikipedia included this: "The Poynter Institute notes, "Media Bias/Fact Check is a widely cited source for news stories and even studies about misinformation, despite the fact that its method is in no way scientific [emphasis mine]."" The fact that some AI group used it to train a classifier is not a very strong endorsement in my opinion. AI researchers aren't journalism subject matter experts, and Media Bias/Fact Check is obviously a very convenient data source, but covenience is not good indicator of quality. > Despite publications in academia using the site, you may also note the following: > ...I'm not sure what to think of the above pedigree for CJR's editor, but IMO I suspect he either fell to one end of the political spectrum or the other. You seem to be trying to synthesize two disparate observations to imply the idea that Kyle Pope is some kind of conservative and therefore too untrustworthy to evaluate Media Bias/Fact Check, but that betrays a poor understanding of how newspapers operate. In a well-run paper, there's a separation between the newsroom and the opinion/editorial pages. For instance, the WSJ has a famously conservative editorial page. You might think its reporters have the same ideology, but (IIRC) its newsroom staff is even more liberal than that from the NYT, a fact that seldom shows because they're so professional. The newsroom exists to report the facts, and the editorial pages to voice the opinions of the owner/publisher. That Jerod Kushner had his paper endorse Donald Trump in no way reflects on Kyle Pope's judgement as a journalist. Furthermore, Kyle Pope's own Wiki page has him saying: > In an interview with Brian Stelter of CNN, Pope stated that after the election of President Donald Trump, the news media needs to rethink how it covers the news in order to "retake the agenda from this man who so hungers for attention, and how do we tell stories in a way that reflects the scale and sweep of the moment we're in?" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Pope https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Pope) The tone of that kinda confirms to me that your quotes are two puzzle pieces that don't actually fit together. I'm inclined to trust the CJR's editor's judgement on journalism topics (topics which include the Media Bias/Fact Check website), because the CJR is the professional journal of the most prestigious American school of journalism.
  - dfsegoat 7y ago

dfsegoat 7y ago

Totally fair, thank you. But you left out some important bits from your response, including that several academic groups have used the site for building fake news classifiers: > The site has been used by researchers at the University of Michigan to create a tool called the "Iffy Quotient", which draws data from Media Bias/Fact Check and NewsWhip to track the prevalence of 'fake news' and questionable sources on social media. The site was also used by a research group at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in initial training of an AI to fact check and detect the bias on a website. [3] Despite publications in academia using the site, you may also note the following: > In 2016, Kyle Pope, who had served as the editor in chief of The New York Observer, was announced as the new editor and publisher of [Columbia Journalism Review]. [1] > In 2016, the New York Observer became notable for being one of only a handful of newspapers to officially endorse United States presidential candidate Donald Trump in the Republican Party presidential primaries.[18] The newspaper's owner and then publisher, Jared Kushner, is Donald Trump's son-in-law. [2] ...I'm not sure what to think of the above pedigree for CJR's editor, but IMO I suspect he either fell to one end of the political spectrum or the other. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Journalism_Review#Editor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Journalism_Review#Edi... 2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Observer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Observer 3 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Bias/Fact_Check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Bias/Fact_Check

CharlesColeman 7y ago
> But you left out some important bits from your response, including that several academic groups have used the site for building fake news classifiers No I didn't. My quote from Wikipedia included this: "The Poynter Institute notes, "Media Bias/Fact Check is a widely cited source for news stories and even studies about misinformation, despite the fact that its method is in no way scientific [emphasis mine]."" The fact that some AI group used it to train a classifier is not a very strong endorsement in my opinion. AI researchers aren't journalism subject matter experts, and Media Bias/Fact Check is obviously a very convenient data source, but covenience is not good indicator of quality. > Despite publications in academia using the site, you may also note the following: > ...I'm not sure what to think of the above pedigree for CJR's editor, but IMO I suspect he either fell to one end of the political spectrum or the other. You seem to be trying to synthesize two disparate observations to imply the idea that Kyle Pope is some kind of conservative and therefore too untrustworthy to evaluate Media Bias/Fact Check, but that betrays a poor understanding of how newspapers operate. In a well-run paper, there's a separation between the newsroom and the opinion/editorial pages. For instance, the WSJ has a famously conservative editorial page. You might think its reporters have the same ideology, but (IIRC) its newsroom staff is even more liberal than that from the NYT, a fact that seldom shows because they're so professional. The newsroom exists to report the facts, and the editorial pages to voice the opinions of the owner/publisher. That Jerod Kushner had his paper endorse Donald Trump in no way reflects on Kyle Pope's judgement as a journalist. Furthermore, Kyle Pope's own Wiki page has him saying: > In an interview with Brian Stelter of CNN, Pope stated that after the election of President Donald Trump, the news media needs to rethink how it covers the news in order to "retake the agenda from this man who so hungers for attention, and how do we tell stories in a way that reflects the scale and sweep of the moment we're in?" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Pope https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Pope) The tone of that kinda confirms to me that your quotes are two puzzle pieces that don't actually fit together. I'm inclined to trust the CJR's editor's judgement on journalism topics (topics which include the Media Bias/Fact Check website), because the CJR is the professional journal of the most prestigious American school of journalism.
- dfsegoat 7y ago