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I know the american tradition is to not speak ill of the dead. But I've never been one for tradition, so... One less fevered ego tainting our collective uncon

by LPTS 18y ago

I know the american tradition is to not speak ill of the dead. But I've never been one for tradition, so... One less fevered ego tainting our collective unconscious. Good. Fair to both sides of the aisle?. Which is why Dick Cheney preferred to go on his show because of the message control. And why he allowed people to put things off the record after interviews. Let's not pretend he represented journalism or that the times he did call people on things, it wasn't just picking on sacrificial lambs so he could maintain a thin veneer of responsibility behind which he could hide the powerful people he ultimately protected. He was fair to everyone except the american people. He's dead now. He hurt America. Millions of people die every day. I can't believe there aren't hundreds of thousands of them more worth this outpouring of grief. My condolences to his family, and to the powerful elites who depended on his show to control the way they distributed propaganda to the masses.

crescendo 18y ago
One less fevered ego tainting our collective unconscious. Good. This is really a pretty despicable attitude no matter where you're from. It's good that a person died because his ego won't trouble you any more? Are you serious? I saw some comments like this on reddit, but I didn't think for a million years I'd see it here.
- LPTS 18y ago
  Millions of people die each day. This in itself is neither good or bad. Death is not some horrible thing. It's not good because he won't trouble me. It's good because all the thousands of people Americans are basically torturing overseas have one less journalist giving the politicians responsible cover. It's good because the politicians like Cheney no longer can obscure shit like this http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444 http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444 by gaining respectability on his show. Which means that Americans will be slightly less likely to allow this outrageous abuse and torture to continue. Yeah. I'm glad Tim Russerts dead. I was elated all day. Why? Because I think torturing people is wrong and I think Tim Russert helped people who directly ordered that torture deceive the American people. I think he helped deceive america intentionally (I do not think he knew about the torture, though). To me, the thought that there is one less gasbag fooling my fellow americans into thinking goons like Cheney who order systematic torture are on the up and up is a great thing. I guess this makes me the one with the despicable attitude and questionable moral fabric. Go look at those pictures. Tim Russert helped the politicians who ordered that to happen. Now that he's dead, he can't do that. Yeah, I'm glad he's dead. Condolences to his family, though. And I saw the disgusting spectacle of people who's shock at being confronted with death made then lionize this person who was quite flawed everywhere. I didn't expect to find that here.
- Prrometheus 18y ago
  You would not have liked to see me when the death of Jerry Falwell was announced. Although it wasn't selfishness that prompted my glee on that occasion, rather that many other people would be spared pain from his blustering hatred and undue influence. A few graves in this world deserve to be danced on. Granted, Russert doesn't strike me as one that deserves it.
  - LPTS 18y ago
    Russert and Falwell are two heads of the same hydra. Falwell's job was to enflame the masses into voting against their economic interests, and Russert's was to pretend to be legitimate to give the most powerful and corrupt people cover. The same guy was on the phone giving both of them their orders. Take another look at those pictures. Then google "Cathie Martin Meet The Press". Then, google "Meet the Press, Dick Cheney interview"
    - icey 18y ago
      Trash like this is why we shouldn't put politics or general news in a hacker news site.
logjam 18y ago
I agree, and applaud your independent thought. My condolences to his family as well. I don't begrudge anyone their mourning. I'm sure a lot of people loved him on a different level than the people he worked for. But do it privately, please. The people inundating us with a celebration of Russert's work are the people who bought and paid for him. His bias in favor of the malevolent powerful, whether left or right wing, was appalling.
robg 18y ago
Hmmm, except you're wrong on the most basic facts of Russert's role: http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/bush/meet.htm http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/bush/meet.htm Transcript of Interview with Vice-President Dick Cheney on Meet the Press, 8 September 2002 Find one other interview with Dick that matches that level of questioning.
- LPTS 18y ago
  You can't find other interviews with Dick Cheney, because he only let Russert, Limbaugh, and a few others interview him. Giving a few questions that skirt the real issues is exactly the problem. Then, Dick Cheney can say he had a tough interview with a legitimate journalist. When really, he acted the part of the legitimate journalist and then let Dick Cheney manipulate america. From Glenn Greenwald: "When I talk to senior government officials on the phone, it's my own policy -- our conversations are confidential. If I want to use anything from that conversation, then I will ask permission" -- Tim Russert, under oath at the Lewis Libby trial, citing the textbook function of a government propagandist to explain his role as a "journalist." "I suggested we put the vice president on 'Meet the Press,' which was a tactic we often used. It's our best format," as it allows us to "control the message" -- Cheney media aide Cathie Martin, under oath at the Libby trial, making clear how well Russert fulfills his function.
  - robg 18y ago
    But see, your concerns are more broadly addressed to the American media. Russert was the best of the bunch, and you seem unable to separate the disease from one of the doctors. Why? As for "controlling the message", name one government on this planet that doesn't. Russert, in the lead up to the war, WAS asking the critical questions. Few were listening though. And as the highest rated Sunday "news" program, he used his pulpit to the best of his ability and profession. Shoot, name one American TV journalist that did better during that time.
    - LPTS 18y ago
      Unable to separate the disease from the doctor? A doctor would not assume that all information he got from direct contact from the disease was not to be used in fighting the disease. It was his personal rule to have communications default to off the record. Don't worry if you're talking to Tim and you screw up. He'll even take it off the record after the fact. That's why Cheney's communications office thought his show was the best alternative to control the message. That's why, and how, he got access, and that's what made him so useful to those that were granting him access. That's not being one of the doctors treating the disease. Did Bill Moyers or Jim Lehrer do better? I bet, but then they don't get access.
DanielBMarkham 18y ago
You know, I thought about this for a while before down-voting it. I very rarely downvote -- maybe I have downvoted ten times in the last year. Let's review: "Not hacker news" <- great comment "One less fevered ego tainting our collective unconscious. Good." <- personal attack on someone you didn't know and who can't defend themselves in this forum. That kind of brazen disregard for humanity is anathema to any organized conversation, in my opinion. I'd down-vote you again if I could. As a political junkie, I like watching the Sunday-morning talkers. Yes, Russert was a democrat and had worked on several campaigns before joining NBC, but he was good at what he did and brought a joy to his work that was infectious. I'm sure he did a lot of good and bad things, but most of all he was a human, a human I spent several dozen hours watching over the course of my life. He deserves better than that comment.If it's not for the board, fair enough. You know, it's quite possible to disagree with people, even hate their behavior, without demonizing the person themselves. "Powerful elites [using] his show to control the way they distributed propaganda"?? I feel like I need a shower after reading it. This, friends, is why politics shouldn't be on HN. If you feel you need to launch into some tirade about multi-national corporations using mind control to enslave the population, take it somewhere else. I don't think this story had to be political at all. Famous talking-head dies. What sorts of neat startup attributes did he have?
- robg 18y ago
  "What sorts of neat startup attributes did he have?" That, I think, is a great question. To me, Russert exemplified the best of his profession without sacrificing himself or his work. By all accounts, he was a great guy who did a great job (qualifications aside about the state of the American media, esp with regard to politics). If folks say the same of me when I'm gone, it will have been a life well-lived, indeed.
  - DanielBMarkham 18y ago
    I remember in the 2000 election mess, Russet pulls out a whiteboard and on national TV starts sketching out some ideas about how things might play out. He was so absorbed in his work he was looking at "what's the best tool right now to get from point A to point B" not necessarily what the most or least telegenic thing to do might be. I believe he's the guy who gave us the entire concept of "red states" and "blue states" I'm sure he had a lot of faults, but it's obvious he was competing well at a national level, and having a blast doing it. If I remember, in the last year or two the network bought him some huge freaking interactive map to use on the air. He used it once and then went back to the whiteboard -- the whiteboard was just enough functionality to do what he needed and not any more. Lots of good startup lessons here -- or at the very least lots of good life lessons.

by LPTS 18y ago

crescendo 18y ago

One less fevered ego tainting our collective unconscious. Good. This is really a pretty despicable attitude no matter where you're from. It's good that a person died because his ego won't trouble you any more? Are you serious? I saw some comments like this on reddit, but I didn't think for a million years I'd see it here.

LPTS 18y ago
Millions of people die each day. This in itself is neither good or bad. Death is not some horrible thing. It's not good because he won't trouble me. It's good because all the thousands of people Americans are basically torturing overseas have one less journalist giving the politicians responsible cover. It's good because the politicians like Cheney no longer can obscure shit like this http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444 http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444 by gaining respectability on his show. Which means that Americans will be slightly less likely to allow this outrageous abuse and torture to continue. Yeah. I'm glad Tim Russerts dead. I was elated all day. Why? Because I think torturing people is wrong and I think Tim Russert helped people who directly ordered that torture deceive the American people. I think he helped deceive america intentionally (I do not think he knew about the torture, though). To me, the thought that there is one less gasbag fooling my fellow americans into thinking goons like Cheney who order systematic torture are on the up and up is a great thing. I guess this makes me the one with the despicable attitude and questionable moral fabric. Go look at those pictures. Tim Russert helped the politicians who ordered that to happen. Now that he's dead, he can't do that. Yeah, I'm glad he's dead. Condolences to his family, though. And I saw the disgusting spectacle of people who's shock at being confronted with death made then lionize this person who was quite flawed everywhere. I didn't expect to find that here.
Prrometheus 18y ago
You would not have liked to see me when the death of Jerry Falwell was announced. Although it wasn't selfishness that prompted my glee on that occasion, rather that many other people would be spared pain from his blustering hatred and undue influence. A few graves in this world deserve to be danced on. Granted, Russert doesn't strike me as one that deserves it.
- LPTS 18y ago
  Russert and Falwell are two heads of the same hydra. Falwell's job was to enflame the masses into voting against their economic interests, and Russert's was to pretend to be legitimate to give the most powerful and corrupt people cover. The same guy was on the phone giving both of them their orders. Take another look at those pictures. Then google "Cathie Martin Meet The Press". Then, google "Meet the Press, Dick Cheney interview"
  - icey 18y ago
    Trash like this is why we shouldn't put politics or general news in a hacker news site.

logjam 18y ago

I agree, and applaud your independent thought. My condolences to his family as well. I don't begrudge anyone their mourning. I'm sure a lot of people loved him on a different level than the people he worked for. But do it privately, please. The people inundating us with a celebration of Russert's work are the people who bought and paid for him. His bias in favor of the malevolent powerful, whether left or right wing, was appalling.

robg 18y ago

Hmmm, except you're wrong on the most basic facts of Russert's role: http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/bush/meet.htm http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/bush/meet.htm Transcript of Interview with Vice-President Dick Cheney on Meet the Press, 8 September 2002 Find one other interview with Dick that matches that level of questioning.

LPTS 18y ago
You can't find other interviews with Dick Cheney, because he only let Russert, Limbaugh, and a few others interview him. Giving a few questions that skirt the real issues is exactly the problem. Then, Dick Cheney can say he had a tough interview with a legitimate journalist. When really, he acted the part of the legitimate journalist and then let Dick Cheney manipulate america. From Glenn Greenwald: "When I talk to senior government officials on the phone, it's my own policy -- our conversations are confidential. If I want to use anything from that conversation, then I will ask permission" -- Tim Russert, under oath at the Lewis Libby trial, citing the textbook function of a government propagandist to explain his role as a "journalist." "I suggested we put the vice president on 'Meet the Press,' which was a tactic we often used. It's our best format," as it allows us to "control the message" -- Cheney media aide Cathie Martin, under oath at the Libby trial, making clear how well Russert fulfills his function.
- robg 18y ago
  But see, your concerns are more broadly addressed to the American media. Russert was the best of the bunch, and you seem unable to separate the disease from one of the doctors. Why? As for "controlling the message", name one government on this planet that doesn't. Russert, in the lead up to the war, WAS asking the critical questions. Few were listening though. And as the highest rated Sunday "news" program, he used his pulpit to the best of his ability and profession. Shoot, name one American TV journalist that did better during that time.
  - LPTS 18y ago
    Unable to separate the disease from the doctor? A doctor would not assume that all information he got from direct contact from the disease was not to be used in fighting the disease. It was his personal rule to have communications default to off the record. Don't worry if you're talking to Tim and you screw up. He'll even take it off the record after the fact. That's why Cheney's communications office thought his show was the best alternative to control the message. That's why, and how, he got access, and that's what made him so useful to those that were granting him access. That's not being one of the doctors treating the disease. Did Bill Moyers or Jim Lehrer do better? I bet, but then they don't get access.

DanielBMarkham 18y ago

You know, I thought about this for a while before down-voting it. I very rarely downvote -- maybe I have downvoted ten times in the last year. Let's review: "Not hacker news" <- great comment "One less fevered ego tainting our collective unconscious. Good." <- personal attack on someone you didn't know and who can't defend themselves in this forum. That kind of brazen disregard for humanity is anathema to any organized conversation, in my opinion. I'd down-vote you again if I could. As a political junkie, I like watching the Sunday-morning talkers. Yes, Russert was a democrat and had worked on several campaigns before joining NBC, but he was good at what he did and brought a joy to his work that was infectious. I'm sure he did a lot of good and bad things, but most of all he was a human, a human I spent several dozen hours watching over the course of my life. He deserves better than that comment.If it's not for the board, fair enough. You know, it's quite possible to disagree with people, even hate their behavior, without demonizing the person themselves. "Powerful elites [using] his show to control the way they distributed propaganda"?? I feel like I need a shower after reading it. This, friends, is why politics shouldn't be on HN. If you feel you need to launch into some tirade about multi-national corporations using mind control to enslave the population, take it somewhere else. I don't think this story had to be political at all. Famous talking-head dies. What sorts of neat startup attributes did he have?

robg 18y ago
"What sorts of neat startup attributes did he have?" That, I think, is a great question. To me, Russert exemplified the best of his profession without sacrificing himself or his work. By all accounts, he was a great guy who did a great job (qualifications aside about the state of the American media, esp with regard to politics). If folks say the same of me when I'm gone, it will have been a life well-lived, indeed.
- DanielBMarkham 18y ago
  I remember in the 2000 election mess, Russet pulls out a whiteboard and on national TV starts sketching out some ideas about how things might play out. He was so absorbed in his work he was looking at "what's the best tool right now to get from point A to point B" not necessarily what the most or least telegenic thing to do might be. I believe he's the guy who gave us the entire concept of "red states" and "blue states" I'm sure he had a lot of faults, but it's obvious he was competing well at a national level, and having a blast doing it. If I remember, in the last year or two the network bought him some huge freaking interactive map to use on the air. He used it once and then went back to the whiteboard -- the whiteboard was just enough functionality to do what he needed and not any more. Lots of good startup lessons here -- or at the very least lots of good life lessons.