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> The real problem is voters want lower taxes, and some genius figured out a way to tout lower taxes and tax payer assistance to students, hence student loan de
by rsj_hn 7y ago
> The real problem is voters want lower taxes, and some genius figured out a way to tout lower taxes and tax payer assistance to students, hence student loan debt.
The facts don't support this claim. U.S. government spending on tertiary education is 0.91% of GDP compared to Germany's 1.0% and Japan's 0.45% (source: https://data.oecd.org/eduresource/public-spending-on-education.htm#indicator-chart https://data.oecd.org/eduresource/public-spending-on-educati...)
Rather, university education in the U.S., like healthcare, is insanely expensive compared to other countries. Why is that?
1. Non-selective. We admit 70% of high school graduates to University whereas in Germany they admit 1/3.
2. Too long/unfocused. University education can last 5-6 years in the US for a bachelors, whereas in Germany it is limited to 3 years. You don't get to drift around as "undecided" and change your major, you apply to the school with a specific major. You don't get a lot of choice as to your electives and follow a pre-planned course of study (for the most part).
3. Too many frills. European schools don't have massive sports stadiums, athletic departments, or other amenities similar to US universities.
4. Too much staff. Our universities are massively overstaffed with everything from diversity officers to football coaches to teams of counselors.
Put this all together, and you have a very expensive, inefficient, gold-plated system focused on catering to student whims rather than to taxpayer efficiency. Of course tax payers don't want to pay for it -- why should they? If you want European style funding of universities, you need European-style spending levels and rigor. If you want an experience that is half as selective, takes twice as long, and offers absurd amenities that have nothing to do with university education, then you are going to have to pay for that out of your own pocket rather than asking for taxpayers to provide this experience for you.
The good news is that you can find relatively inexpensive higher education in the U.S. if you are a good student and are willing to attend community college for the first two years and a local state school for the rest. If you are good enough to be admitted to University in Europe, then in the U.S. you should be able to get a scholarship. Of course most US university students would never be admitted to University in Europe in the first place -- so having an option to pay a lot to go might be better than not having an option at all. But I suspect that we would be better off adopting a German style trade school system to absorb 50% of high school graduates as well as a more rigorous high school system, but that would require adoption of tracking and letting most students know that they are not going to be on the university track. In that type of environment, sure, taxpayers would be willing to fund the enterprise since they would only be spending 10% more than they are spending now to match German-level of tertiary education spending.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago> The facts don't support this claim. U.S. government spending on tertiary education is 0.91% of GDP compared to Germany's 1.0% and Japan's 0.45% US voters aren’t comparing taxes with Japan and Germany. They’re voting between politician A who says they will lower taxes, and does it by removing funding for higher education or politician B, who does provide higher education and hence has to collect higher taxes and politician A. Politician A can get away with this by claiming they still support students by providing government loans or government guaranteed private loans or whatever, but they don’t have to account for it in the same way politician B does. I agree with all of your points, and I far prefer the German model too. But American voters seem to love debt, and low taxes, and rarely is a thought given to the future.
- rsj_hn 7y agoMaybe American voters don't want to pay more for college education because they know how much it costs, and they feel they are already paying enough? I think they are correct. Reforming higher education means cutting spending first and foremost. Shut down half the universities, lay off 1/3 of the staff in the rest, seize the endowments, close all the sports stadiums, fire most of the admins, force students to finish in 3 years, and then take the pile of money we are already spending on education and make that be the full tuition. Voters concerned about high taxes would benefit from this, as would the top 50% of students. The bottom 50% of University students should be diverted to 2 year long trade schools, which can be built on the ruins of the shutdown universities, but staffed with craftsmen rather than professors. Industry can pay for 1/3 of it, students can pay for 1/3, and taxpayers can pay for the other third of the trade schools.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago> Reforming higher education means cutting spending first and foremost. This has already occurred and continues to be cut further. What also happened however, is the legislature promised lenders that taxpayers would pay for all student loans. Of course this doesn’t get accounted in cash flow, because you can just assume more people will pay back their loans than actually will. So now you have a situation where a lender can make a loan of unlimited amount of money with no risk to the lender, a borrower who knows nothing about money but has infinite ability to borrow, and a seller (schools) that get less money from taxpayers, but now can fight for the gobs of money that the students (who know nothing) have control of spending. Hence unnecessary stadiums, recreational centers, buildings, admin, etc.