4 ms·

Assuming JVM is (or will be) installed is a little risky though, isn’t it? We got rid of it in our enterprise setting some years ago, and we hardly seem unique

by moksly 7y ago

Assuming JVM is (or will be) installed is a little risky though, isn’t it? We got rid of it in our enterprise setting some years ago, and we hardly seem unique in having removed JAVA from our available techs in our area. I know games aren’t exactly meant for enterprise, but it’s been even longer since I had a JVM on my private computer. Maybe I’m alone in that? This is not to shit in Kotlin, it’s certainly a nice language, but I wouldn’t expect widespread adoption to be what it was a decades ago.

matsemann 7y ago
One usually just bundles a jre and package the whole thing to a binary[0]. You wouldn't even know the game you're playing is running java. One could probably improve this further with modules and the newer additions to java/jvm (jlink). [0]: https://github.com/libgdx/libgdx/wiki/Bundling-a-JRE https://github.com/libgdx/libgdx/wiki/Bundling-a-JRE
- dharmab 7y ago
  Yup, with jlink you don't need to ship a full JRE, just the parts your binary actually uses. The user just runs a small binary and doesn't need to install and update a separate JRE.
numlock86 7y ago
The alternative (which is against the initial argument that you just ship a .jar) seems to be to include a JRE with your software. Minecraft and LibreOffice do this for example.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  JRE is no more. You just create a custom image for you application with the Java linker.
rumanator 7y ago
> Assuming JVM is (or will be) installed is a little risky though, isn’t it? At least in Linux the package management systems enable packagers to specify dependencies such as the JVM. In Windows perhaps it's possible to bundle a JVM of choice.
croo 7y ago
I haven't seen a pc without java since forever. But I'm a java developer so each to his own bubble huh? :)
- mbel 7y ago
  Well I could say that I haven't seen a PC with Java since forever. But I'm a C developer so perhaps I live in another bubble ;)
  - elamje 7y ago
    I’m neither and I can tell you that Java is most places that game players are.
- shantly 7y ago
  My recent java experience is that you end up having to tune it and keep multiple versions and screw around a bunch if you’re doing more than one thing with it. Stick to Android dev and it’ll be fine after the initial config, but switch to something else or try to run some GUI java project off Github and you’ll lose time configuring it. I “nope” out of a lot of Java stuff as soon as I see it’s Java, as a result. If anything the situation seems a little worse than it was in, say, the ‘00s.
  - croo 7y ago
    I sympathize with your problems, I also had to juggle multiple versions for a period of time on multiple projects. Docker thankfully eliminated that and even without it the most you have to do now days is to point "$JAVA_HOME" to another folder. Java and it's ecosystem is better than ever and the language updates since java 8 are great to work with. The JVM is great. Spring boot finally removed most of the the multiple days config issues. Everything is mature, every problem has one or more library to solve it.

by moksly 7y ago

matsemann 7y ago

One usually just bundles a jre and package the whole thing to a binary[0]. You wouldn't even know the game you're playing is running java. One could probably improve this further with modules and the newer additions to java/jvm (jlink). [0]: https://github.com/libgdx/libgdx/wiki/Bundling-a-JRE https://github.com/libgdx/libgdx/wiki/Bundling-a-JRE

dharmab 7y ago
Yup, with jlink you don't need to ship a full JRE, just the parts your binary actually uses. The user just runs a small binary and doesn't need to install and update a separate JRE.

numlock86 7y ago

The alternative (which is against the initial argument that you just ship a .jar) seems to be to include a JRE with your software. Minecraft and LibreOffice do this for example.

pjmlp 7y ago
JRE is no more. You just create a custom image for you application with the Java linker.

rumanator 7y ago

> Assuming JVM is (or will be) installed is a little risky though, isn’t it? At least in Linux the package management systems enable packagers to specify dependencies such as the JVM. In Windows perhaps it's possible to bundle a JVM of choice.

croo 7y ago

I haven't seen a pc without java since forever. But I'm a java developer so each to his own bubble huh? :)

mbel 7y ago
Well I could say that I haven't seen a PC with Java since forever. But I'm a C developer so perhaps I live in another bubble ;)
- elamje 7y ago
  I’m neither and I can tell you that Java is most places that game players are.
shantly 7y ago
My recent java experience is that you end up having to tune it and keep multiple versions and screw around a bunch if you’re doing more than one thing with it. Stick to Android dev and it’ll be fine after the initial config, but switch to something else or try to run some GUI java project off Github and you’ll lose time configuring it. I “nope” out of a lot of Java stuff as soon as I see it’s Java, as a result. If anything the situation seems a little worse than it was in, say, the ‘00s.
- croo 7y ago
  I sympathize with your problems, I also had to juggle multiple versions for a period of time on multiple projects. Docker thankfully eliminated that and even without it the most you have to do now days is to point "$JAVA_HOME" to another folder. Java and it's ecosystem is better than ever and the language updates since java 8 are great to work with. The JVM is great. Spring boot finally removed most of the the multiple days config issues. Everything is mature, every problem has one or more library to solve it.