4 ms·

But taxes are much lower in the US. Is healthcare even cheaper in Sweden, if you figure in taxes?

by adventskalender 7y ago

Gibbon1 7y ago
Scuttlebutt is actual healthcare expenditures in places like Sweden are about half that in the US.
- adventskalender 7y ago
  I find such figures difficult to interpret, though (like here: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#item-average-wealthy-countries-spend-half-much-per-person-health-u-s-spends https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-...) It could be that richer countries simply have more money to spend on health care, so why wouldn't they spend it. On the other hand many health outcomes may also depend on wealth - for example over-consumption leading to obesity, which might affect health more than spending on health care can compensate. In that example, a rich country could spend more money on health care and still have worse average health than poorer countries. Not saying that is exactly what is going on, just that it makes sense to be careful with judging.
afarrell 7y ago
From data collected over 2014-2018, the US spent $10,586 USD/capita on healthcare and Sweden spent $5,447 USD/capita on healthcare. Source: https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm
- adventskalender 7y ago
  That may be so, but doesn't necessarily imply that health care is more expensive in the US. It's possible that in the US they simply spend more money on useless things, or do more screenings with better technology, for example. Many things can go wrong with interpreting such statistics, see also my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21760725 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21760725 Afaik, some of the best (and also most expensive) medical procedures are only available in the US.
  - swebs 7y ago
    In Sweden, you pay taxes for healthcare and everyone receives healthcare. In the USA, you pay taxes for healthcare, but only the old and the poor receive that tax funded healthcare. So the average taxpayer has to buy their own health insurance in addition. The linked chart also shows a clear correlation with Purchasing Power Parity, which also should be accounted for.
    - afarrell 7y ago
      > only the old and the poor Also government employees, and those under the care of the VA. > Purchasing Power Parity, which also should be accounted for. Yes, I agree. To illustrate with a simplified example: Imagine nation A has median wage of $20k and nation B has median wage of $40k. Also imagine that their income distribution is the same. Then, if healthcare costs in nation B are twice as high, healthcare is equally as affordable.
    - adventskalender 7y ago
      " So the average taxpayer has to buy their own health insurance in addition." How the money is collected is pretty irrelevant (indirectly via taxes or directly by the insurance company or physician). What matters is the overall cost.
      - pnutjam 7y ago
        Don't forget profit, and the incentive for insurance companies to care less about what they pay and probably prefer higher prices.
        adventskalender 7y ago
        Why would insurance companies prefer higher prices?
        pnutjam 7y ago
        Their profit is capped at a percentage of payouts. Pay more keep more profits (after raising rates).
the-dude 7y ago
Could you define 'much'? I have seen figures once, and it wasn't all that much.
- adventskalender 7y ago
  I have to google for that later. Might also be difficult to compare because of different forms of taxes (income, wealth, VAT, energy...).
  - adventskalender 7y ago
    Difficult to find reliable numbers. This one claims about 43% taxes in Sweden vs about 26% in the US https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxes-compare-internationally https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxe... Another question perhaps is who pays taxes - another source I found said 2/3rds of voters in Sweden get their money from the state, either because they are government employees or recipients of welfare. So an average tax rate might also be misleading, if many don't pay taxes at all.

But taxes are much lower in the US. Is healthcare even cheaper in Sweden, if you figure in taxes?

Gibbon1 7y ago

Scuttlebutt is actual healthcare expenditures in places like Sweden are about half that in the US.

adventskalender 7y ago
I find such figures difficult to interpret, though (like here: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#item-average-wealthy-countries-spend-half-much-per-person-health-u-s-spends https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-...) It could be that richer countries simply have more money to spend on health care, so why wouldn't they spend it. On the other hand many health outcomes may also depend on wealth - for example over-consumption leading to obesity, which might affect health more than spending on health care can compensate. In that example, a rich country could spend more money on health care and still have worse average health than poorer countries. Not saying that is exactly what is going on, just that it makes sense to be careful with judging.

afarrell 7y ago

From data collected over 2014-2018, the US spent $10,586 USD/capita on healthcare and Sweden spent $5,447 USD/capita on healthcare. Source: https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm

adventskalender 7y ago
That may be so, but doesn't necessarily imply that health care is more expensive in the US. It's possible that in the US they simply spend more money on useless things, or do more screenings with better technology, for example. Many things can go wrong with interpreting such statistics, see also my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21760725 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21760725 Afaik, some of the best (and also most expensive) medical procedures are only available in the US.
- swebs 7y ago
  In Sweden, you pay taxes for healthcare and everyone receives healthcare. In the USA, you pay taxes for healthcare, but only the old and the poor receive that tax funded healthcare. So the average taxpayer has to buy their own health insurance in addition. The linked chart also shows a clear correlation with Purchasing Power Parity, which also should be accounted for.
  - afarrell 7y ago
    > only the old and the poor Also government employees, and those under the care of the VA. > Purchasing Power Parity, which also should be accounted for. Yes, I agree. To illustrate with a simplified example: Imagine nation A has median wage of $20k and nation B has median wage of $40k. Also imagine that their income distribution is the same. Then, if healthcare costs in nation B are twice as high, healthcare is equally as affordable.
  - adventskalender 7y ago
    " So the average taxpayer has to buy their own health insurance in addition." How the money is collected is pretty irrelevant (indirectly via taxes or directly by the insurance company or physician). What matters is the overall cost.
    - pnutjam 7y ago
      Don't forget profit, and the incentive for insurance companies to care less about what they pay and probably prefer higher prices.
      - adventskalender 7y ago
        Why would insurance companies prefer higher prices?
        pnutjam 7y ago
        Their profit is capped at a percentage of payouts. Pay more keep more profits (after raising rates).

the-dude 7y ago

Could you define 'much'? I have seen figures once, and it wasn't all that much.

adventskalender 7y ago
I have to google for that later. Might also be difficult to compare because of different forms of taxes (income, wealth, VAT, energy...).
- adventskalender 7y ago
  Difficult to find reliable numbers. This one claims about 43% taxes in Sweden vs about 26% in the US https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxes-compare-internationally https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxe... Another question perhaps is who pays taxes - another source I found said 2/3rds of voters in Sweden get their money from the state, either because they are government employees or recipients of welfare. So an average tax rate might also be misleading, if many don't pay taxes at all.