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"Education" is necessary up to a certain point. In America, up to highschool education is free and for the most part required. Why draw the line at a bachelors

by ponsin 7y ago

"Education" is necessary up to a certain point. In America, up to highschool education is free and for the most part required. Why draw the line at a bachelors degree? Should Masters and PhDs be free and partially required? Based on how I framed the question I assume that you can tell that I draw the line at highschool education. I can however see the argument for raising it to bachelor's. However I would expect the government to do much more than just give free money. Rather they would regulate it like they do to highschool. For example, required courses in English literature, American history, PE, and science. Mandatory attendance. Nationwide standardized tests. And others ... I personally am glad that I finish all of that in highschool and I now have the freedom to choose what and how I study. But to respond to your point directly, degrees such as gender studies, art history, and English literature are certainly a luxury service that can be postponed or outright skipped.

CathedralBorrow 7y ago
> Based on how I framed the question I assume that you can tell that I draw the line at highschool education. I'm asking out of curiosity and not trying to make a point or win any argument: Why do you draw your line there? I wouldn't combine "free" and "partially required" though, as I don't see the need to conflate them. Where I live Masters and PhDs are free, but your required education is completed at age 15. Everything after that is completely optional, but free. as in no tuition, but there are some administrative fees and books you need to buy, etc.
- ponsin 7y ago
  I draw my line there because I know of many people who would have a very fulfilling career doing things that only require a high school education (such as cashiers, customer service representatives, and construction workers). I assume that those people also would not gain much from college since having knowing them in highschool, they do not gain that much from formal education (lack of motivation to study, lack of intelligence to understand basic topics, lack of interest is those subjects). I guess I shouldn't have assumed that government would necessarily regulate college like they do high school. Some European countries are examples of that. However in those countries there are a lack of people who are qualified to work in highly educated fields and a surplus of blue collar workers. In the US the situation is reversed. There is not enough work for many liberal arts majors, but a lack of workers for blue collar jobs. Spending tax dollars educating people from jobs that lack workers to jobs that have a surplus is not good usage of the money. Furthermore, a person who is not fit for even free college (probably has a lower income) now has to pay taxes for college students (who probably will have a higher income [unless they can't find a job]) while not benefiting from it.
  - CathedralBorrow 7y ago
    There are a lot of assumptions in there that I don't think are necessarily founded. Is knowing someone enough for you to make assumptions about whether they will gain much from higher education? That seems awfully judgmental to me. I'll also add that this: "However in those countries there are a lack of people who are qualified to work in highly educated fields and a surplus of blue collar workers." is absolutely not the case in the European country where I live. When you talk about the state of "those countries", what countries are you talking about and what are you basing that statement on?
    - ponsin 7y ago
      > Is knowing someone enough for you to make assumptions about whether they will gain much from higher education? Yes, I make assumptions based on what I hear and who I see. I don't have the time to make a doctorate thesis on of my assumptions. Had I spent years researching how to identify people who college would help, and people who it would not help then I would use a stronger word than "assumption". With regard to countries offering free college education there are countries such as Germany, France and Brazil that offer free college education. They also have very low rates of attendance. Image how much lower it would be if the students had to pay for it.
- frockington1 7y ago
  I have a bachelors degree in biomedical engineering, complete waste of time and money. All it has really provided me is a piece of paper that says I am smart
int_19h 7y ago
A better approach would be to draw the line at the actual skills and knowledge that we believe everybody in the society must possess, and then figure out how to structure the educational system around that - i.e. what does it even mean to "have a degree", what kinds there are, what's the difference between college and trade school etc. It's quite likely that the existing structure is not at all optimal.

by ponsin 7y ago

CathedralBorrow 7y ago

> Based on how I framed the question I assume that you can tell that I draw the line at highschool education. I'm asking out of curiosity and not trying to make a point or win any argument: Why do you draw your line there? I wouldn't combine "free" and "partially required" though, as I don't see the need to conflate them. Where I live Masters and PhDs are free, but your required education is completed at age 15. Everything after that is completely optional, but free. as in no tuition, but there are some administrative fees and books you need to buy, etc.

ponsin 7y ago
I draw my line there because I know of many people who would have a very fulfilling career doing things that only require a high school education (such as cashiers, customer service representatives, and construction workers). I assume that those people also would not gain much from college since having knowing them in highschool, they do not gain that much from formal education (lack of motivation to study, lack of intelligence to understand basic topics, lack of interest is those subjects). I guess I shouldn't have assumed that government would necessarily regulate college like they do high school. Some European countries are examples of that. However in those countries there are a lack of people who are qualified to work in highly educated fields and a surplus of blue collar workers. In the US the situation is reversed. There is not enough work for many liberal arts majors, but a lack of workers for blue collar jobs. Spending tax dollars educating people from jobs that lack workers to jobs that have a surplus is not good usage of the money. Furthermore, a person who is not fit for even free college (probably has a lower income) now has to pay taxes for college students (who probably will have a higher income [unless they can't find a job]) while not benefiting from it.
- CathedralBorrow 7y ago
  There are a lot of assumptions in there that I don't think are necessarily founded. Is knowing someone enough for you to make assumptions about whether they will gain much from higher education? That seems awfully judgmental to me. I'll also add that this: "However in those countries there are a lack of people who are qualified to work in highly educated fields and a surplus of blue collar workers." is absolutely not the case in the European country where I live. When you talk about the state of "those countries", what countries are you talking about and what are you basing that statement on?
  - ponsin 7y ago
    > Is knowing someone enough for you to make assumptions about whether they will gain much from higher education? Yes, I make assumptions based on what I hear and who I see. I don't have the time to make a doctorate thesis on of my assumptions. Had I spent years researching how to identify people who college would help, and people who it would not help then I would use a stronger word than "assumption". With regard to countries offering free college education there are countries such as Germany, France and Brazil that offer free college education. They also have very low rates of attendance. Image how much lower it would be if the students had to pay for it.
frockington1 7y ago
I have a bachelors degree in biomedical engineering, complete waste of time and money. All it has really provided me is a piece of paper that says I am smart

int_19h 7y ago

A better approach would be to draw the line at the actual skills and knowledge that we believe everybody in the society must possess, and then figure out how to structure the educational system around that - i.e. what does it even mean to "have a degree", what kinds there are, what's the difference between college and trade school etc. It's quite likely that the existing structure is not at all optimal.