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“Cartographer” was replaced by “Geospatial data scientist” or the like. There is little market left for purely drawing maps. That is now just an expected skill

“Cartographer” was replaced by “Geospatial data scientist” or the like. There is little market left for purely drawing maps. That is now just an expected skill among those in the field of GIS.

DoingIsLearning 7y ago
Maybe if they had _some_ cartographers in the maps team perhaps google would understand the importance of a having a scale shown on a map _all_ the time. A map is by definition drawn to scale, having a scale on the map is what makes it a map. We may maintain proportions but by removing the scale, it simply becomes a polished drawing with zero intuition of distance. I am old enough that I navigated forest/mountain treks with a compass and topographic map as a teen. To me not having a map scale when navigating to a new place feels really disconcerting.
- shantly 7y ago
  > Maybe if they had _some_ cartographers in the maps team perhaps google would understand the importance of a having a scale shown on a map _all_ the time. Missing scale in online maps—and Google is a frequent offender—drives me fucking crazy.
  - sudosysgen 7y ago
    It's one of the reasons I use OpenStreetMaps, despite it's shortcomings.
    - whyever 7y ago
      What are its shortcomings compared to Google's offering?
      - adrianN 7y ago
        It's not as good at searching for places.
- Foivos 7y ago
  At least in the mobile application, this can be fixed: https://support.google.com/maps/answer/6242110?hl=en https://support.google.com/maps/answer/6242110?hl=en
  - DoingIsLearning 7y ago
    Not quite true. It remains 'on' when manipulating in 'map mode' but it again dissapears when you ask it to provide route directions from A to B. So it is not "always" shown.
- Rerarom 7y ago
  I never paid attention to the scale when using a map.
  - DoingIsLearning 7y ago
    I am not sure why you are downvoted as I have the feeling this will be true for a lot of people nowadays. The scale of a map becomes relevant if you have to travel more than a few kilometres without an external 'absolute' reference like a GPS. You could argue that navigation as an individual skill is also obsolete. Equally you could argue that ham radio is obsolete, however there are plenty of exanples of infrastruture faults in disaster situations where ham radio comms was the only alternative for emergency services after earthquakes hurricanes etc. This is same reasoning why pilots training includes instrument loss scenarios. No system is garanteed to never fail.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    So, if you're looking at a map of a city, you don't care whether you have to walk 1/4 mile or 2 miles between two places?
    - Rerarom 7y ago
      This actually happened to me once - I walked for way longer than I expected (I had looked at a map just to get directions not caring much about distances), but anyway it was an errand I absolutely had to do that day, knowing in advance how long it was going to take wouldn't have helped me (except maybe psychologically). Now, I'm not defending my actions, I just gave the example to see I was not exaggerating.
      - ghaff 7y ago
        Maybe it's because I do a lot of hiking, but I'm always acutely aware of scale when I'm looking at a map--and it annoys me if it's not immediately obvious.
- fouc 7y ago
  I'm surprised that nobody has apparently invented a more minimalistic scale that goes along the edges of the display. That way it's more consistently obvious while not taking up any space in the middle.
- neurostimulant 7y ago
  On desktop, the scale shows up all the time at the bottom right corner of the screen. On mobile it's only showing up during zooming, so I often zooming back and forth just to see the scale.
- smm2000 7y ago
  On iOS Google Maps go to Settings->Scales and set Map Scales to Always. No Google cartographers necessary.
  - DoingIsLearning 7y ago
    Yes I am aware, however (on android) it remains 'on' when manipulating in 'map mode' but it again dissapears when you ask it to provide route directions from A to B. So it is not "always" shown.
kaikai 7y ago
Cartographers are still needed to design the maps. GIS and map data people have a different skill set than designers, and a lot of careful thought goes into good maps.
ryandrake 7y ago
When I worked for a small company writing mapping software (non-Google/Apple) we actually hired a full-time cartographer to correctly style the maps and help us with the human interface challenges of displaying map data. A UX generalist may not necessarily have this kind of expertise. I'm sure there aren't many specialized positions like this open but they do exist. I imagine the big mapping companies hire multiple cartographers.
- growlist 7y ago
  Exactly. It really is a specialised skill, not just one that you can pick up alongside all your other GIS skills.
- lovehashbrowns 7y ago
  Was it difficult to find a full time cartographer? Did you have to reach out to someone like a university or just placing an ad was fine?
  - ryandrake 7y ago
    I wasn’t personally involved in the hiring (we=Company) so I imagine they went where you usually go for graphic designers or UI experts and looked specifically for someone promoting themselves as a cartographer!
ascorbic 7y ago
They may use GIS now to do it, but cartographer is still very much a job in its own right. That may not always be the job title (though it still is in many places) but just as there are loads of front end developers who aren't any good at design, there are plenty of GIS engineers who can't design a great map. Likewise, whether they're called cartographers or geospatial data visualisation specialists, there are probably more people designing maps now than there ever have been.

DoingIsLearning 7y ago

Maybe if they had _some_ cartographers in the maps team perhaps google would understand the importance of a having a scale shown on a map _all_ the time. A map is by definition drawn to scale, having a scale on the map is what makes it a map. We may maintain proportions but by removing the scale, it simply becomes a polished drawing with zero intuition of distance. I am old enough that I navigated forest/mountain treks with a compass and topographic map as a teen. To me not having a map scale when navigating to a new place feels really disconcerting.

shantly 7y ago
> Maybe if they had _some_ cartographers in the maps team perhaps google would understand the importance of a having a scale shown on a map _all_ the time. Missing scale in online maps—and Google is a frequent offender—drives me fucking crazy.
- sudosysgen 7y ago
  It's one of the reasons I use OpenStreetMaps, despite it's shortcomings.
  - whyever 7y ago
    What are its shortcomings compared to Google's offering?
    - adrianN 7y ago
      It's not as good at searching for places.
Foivos 7y ago
At least in the mobile application, this can be fixed: https://support.google.com/maps/answer/6242110?hl=en https://support.google.com/maps/answer/6242110?hl=en
- DoingIsLearning 7y ago
  Not quite true. It remains 'on' when manipulating in 'map mode' but it again dissapears when you ask it to provide route directions from A to B. So it is not "always" shown.
Rerarom 7y ago
I never paid attention to the scale when using a map.
- DoingIsLearning 7y ago
  I am not sure why you are downvoted as I have the feeling this will be true for a lot of people nowadays. The scale of a map becomes relevant if you have to travel more than a few kilometres without an external 'absolute' reference like a GPS. You could argue that navigation as an individual skill is also obsolete. Equally you could argue that ham radio is obsolete, however there are plenty of exanples of infrastruture faults in disaster situations where ham radio comms was the only alternative for emergency services after earthquakes hurricanes etc. This is same reasoning why pilots training includes instrument loss scenarios. No system is garanteed to never fail.
- ghaff 7y ago
  So, if you're looking at a map of a city, you don't care whether you have to walk 1/4 mile or 2 miles between two places?
  - Rerarom 7y ago
    This actually happened to me once - I walked for way longer than I expected (I had looked at a map just to get directions not caring much about distances), but anyway it was an errand I absolutely had to do that day, knowing in advance how long it was going to take wouldn't have helped me (except maybe psychologically). Now, I'm not defending my actions, I just gave the example to see I was not exaggerating.
    - ghaff 7y ago
      Maybe it's because I do a lot of hiking, but I'm always acutely aware of scale when I'm looking at a map--and it annoys me if it's not immediately obvious.
fouc 7y ago
I'm surprised that nobody has apparently invented a more minimalistic scale that goes along the edges of the display. That way it's more consistently obvious while not taking up any space in the middle.
neurostimulant 7y ago
On desktop, the scale shows up all the time at the bottom right corner of the screen. On mobile it's only showing up during zooming, so I often zooming back and forth just to see the scale.
smm2000 7y ago
On iOS Google Maps go to Settings->Scales and set Map Scales to Always. No Google cartographers necessary.
- DoingIsLearning 7y ago
  Yes I am aware, however (on android) it remains 'on' when manipulating in 'map mode' but it again dissapears when you ask it to provide route directions from A to B. So it is not "always" shown.

kaikai 7y ago

Cartographers are still needed to design the maps. GIS and map data people have a different skill set than designers, and a lot of careful thought goes into good maps.

ryandrake 7y ago

When I worked for a small company writing mapping software (non-Google/Apple) we actually hired a full-time cartographer to correctly style the maps and help us with the human interface challenges of displaying map data. A UX generalist may not necessarily have this kind of expertise. I'm sure there aren't many specialized positions like this open but they do exist. I imagine the big mapping companies hire multiple cartographers.

growlist 7y ago
Exactly. It really is a specialised skill, not just one that you can pick up alongside all your other GIS skills.
lovehashbrowns 7y ago
Was it difficult to find a full time cartographer? Did you have to reach out to someone like a university or just placing an ad was fine?
- ryandrake 7y ago
  I wasn’t personally involved in the hiring (we=Company) so I imagine they went where you usually go for graphic designers or UI experts and looked specifically for someone promoting themselves as a cartographer!

ascorbic 7y ago

They may use GIS now to do it, but cartographer is still very much a job in its own right. That may not always be the job title (though it still is in many places) but just as there are loads of front end developers who aren't any good at design, there are plenty of GIS engineers who can't design a great map. Likewise, whether they're called cartographers or geospatial data visualisation specialists, there are probably more people designing maps now than there ever have been.