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I went on a guided tour in Australia early this year and the topic of occupations came up. Our tour guide said he used to be a cartographer and then switched to

I went on a guided tour in Australia early this year and the topic of occupations came up. Our tour guide said he used to be a cartographer and then switched to being a tour guide because "Google put him out of business". I honestly didn't know what a cartographer was so I googled it and it's someone who makes maps. I can see why he became a tour guide and why he blames Google. I wonder about all the other cartographers out there; perhaps cartographer should be on this list.

GrifMD 7y ago
From a strict since of literal map makers drawing maps, yes that position would be obsolete apart from maybe some niche "for the art of it" scenarios, like the man mapping out the remaining dirt roads in the United States. Check out this New Yorker article if you're interested in that specific case: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-inquiry/dirt-road-america https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-inquiry/dirt-roa...
nexuist 7y ago
Surely there are many cartographers that work on the Maps team? I doubt all of that content can be generated directly from satellite images. Furthermore there are many cartographers that work for e.g. oil companies and the military. Google Maps provides a great service to consumers, but there are thousands of map types that it does not support that both the public and private sector need made.
- bransonf 7y ago
  “Cartographer” was replaced by “Geospatial data scientist” or the like. There is little market left for purely drawing maps. That is now just an expected skill among those in the field of GIS.
  - DoingIsLearning 7y ago
    Maybe if they had _some_ cartographers in the maps team perhaps google would understand the importance of a having a scale shown on a map _all_ the time. A map is by definition drawn to scale, having a scale on the map is what makes it a map. We may maintain proportions but by removing the scale, it simply becomes a polished drawing with zero intuition of distance. I am old enough that I navigated forest/mountain treks with a compass and topographic map as a teen. To me not having a map scale when navigating to a new place feels really disconcerting.
    - shantly 7y ago
      > Maybe if they had _some_ cartographers in the maps team perhaps google would understand the importance of a having a scale shown on a map _all_ the time. Missing scale in online maps—and Google is a frequent offender—drives me fucking crazy.
      - sudosysgen 7y ago
        It's one of the reasons I use OpenStreetMaps, despite it's shortcomings.
        whyever 7y ago
        What are its shortcomings compared to Google's offering?
        adrianN 7y ago
        It's not as good at searching for places.
    - Foivos 7y ago
      At least in the mobile application, this can be fixed: https://support.google.com/maps/answer/6242110?hl=en https://support.google.com/maps/answer/6242110?hl=en
      - DoingIsLearning 7y ago
        Not quite true. It remains 'on' when manipulating in 'map mode' but it again dissapears when you ask it to provide route directions from A to B. So it is not "always" shown.
    - Rerarom 7y ago
      I never paid attention to the scale when using a map.
      - 7y ago
  - kaikai 7y ago
    Cartographers are still needed to design the maps. GIS and map data people have a different skill set than designers, and a lot of careful thought goes into good maps.
  - ryandrake 7y ago
    When I worked for a small company writing mapping software (non-Google/Apple) we actually hired a full-time cartographer to correctly style the maps and help us with the human interface challenges of displaying map data. A UX generalist may not necessarily have this kind of expertise. I'm sure there aren't many specialized positions like this open but they do exist. I imagine the big mapping companies hire multiple cartographers.
    - growlist 7y ago
      Exactly. It really is a specialised skill, not just one that you can pick up alongside all your other GIS skills.
    - lovehashbrowns 7y ago
      Was it difficult to find a full time cartographer? Did you have to reach out to someone like a university or just placing an ad was fine?
      - ryandrake 7y ago
        I wasn’t personally involved in the hiring (we=Company) so I imagine they went where you usually go for graphic designers or UI experts and looked specifically for someone promoting themselves as a cartographer!
  - ascorbic 7y ago
    They may use GIS now to do it, but cartographer is still very much a job in its own right. That may not always be the job title (though it still is in many places) but just as there are loads of front end developers who aren't any good at design, there are plenty of GIS engineers who can't design a great map. Likewise, whether they're called cartographers or geospatial data visualisation specialists, there are probably more people designing maps now than there ever have been.
- LeonB 7y ago
  I’ve worked in a team of cartographers and their numbers have dwindled and they’ve had to diversify their skillset over the last decade.
zeckalpha 7y ago
Next they’ll find out about audio tours
closeparen 7y ago
The National Geospatial Intelligence Agency employs ~16,000 people.
- Cyph0n 7y ago
  That’s an impressive number! USGS employs around 8000 according to Wikipedia.
JoeAltmaier 7y ago
I have a young acquaintance who is a working cartographer.

GrifMD 7y ago

From a strict since of literal map makers drawing maps, yes that position would be obsolete apart from maybe some niche "for the art of it" scenarios, like the man mapping out the remaining dirt roads in the United States. Check out this New Yorker article if you're interested in that specific case: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-inquiry/dirt-road-america https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-inquiry/dirt-roa...

nexuist 7y ago

Surely there are many cartographers that work on the Maps team? I doubt all of that content can be generated directly from satellite images. Furthermore there are many cartographers that work for e.g. oil companies and the military. Google Maps provides a great service to consumers, but there are thousands of map types that it does not support that both the public and private sector need made.

bransonf 7y ago
“Cartographer” was replaced by “Geospatial data scientist” or the like. There is little market left for purely drawing maps. That is now just an expected skill among those in the field of GIS.
- DoingIsLearning 7y ago
  Maybe if they had _some_ cartographers in the maps team perhaps google would understand the importance of a having a scale shown on a map _all_ the time. A map is by definition drawn to scale, having a scale on the map is what makes it a map. We may maintain proportions but by removing the scale, it simply becomes a polished drawing with zero intuition of distance. I am old enough that I navigated forest/mountain treks with a compass and topographic map as a teen. To me not having a map scale when navigating to a new place feels really disconcerting.
  - shantly 7y ago
    > Maybe if they had _some_ cartographers in the maps team perhaps google would understand the importance of a having a scale shown on a map _all_ the time. Missing scale in online maps—and Google is a frequent offender—drives me fucking crazy.
    - sudosysgen 7y ago
      It's one of the reasons I use OpenStreetMaps, despite it's shortcomings.
      - whyever 7y ago
        What are its shortcomings compared to Google's offering?
        adrianN 7y ago
        It's not as good at searching for places.
  - Foivos 7y ago
    At least in the mobile application, this can be fixed: https://support.google.com/maps/answer/6242110?hl=en https://support.google.com/maps/answer/6242110?hl=en
    - DoingIsLearning 7y ago
      Not quite true. It remains 'on' when manipulating in 'map mode' but it again dissapears when you ask it to provide route directions from A to B. So it is not "always" shown.
  - Rerarom 7y ago
    I never paid attention to the scale when using a map.
    - 7y ago
- kaikai 7y ago
  Cartographers are still needed to design the maps. GIS and map data people have a different skill set than designers, and a lot of careful thought goes into good maps.
- ryandrake 7y ago
  When I worked for a small company writing mapping software (non-Google/Apple) we actually hired a full-time cartographer to correctly style the maps and help us with the human interface challenges of displaying map data. A UX generalist may not necessarily have this kind of expertise. I'm sure there aren't many specialized positions like this open but they do exist. I imagine the big mapping companies hire multiple cartographers.
  - growlist 7y ago
    Exactly. It really is a specialised skill, not just one that you can pick up alongside all your other GIS skills.
  - lovehashbrowns 7y ago
    Was it difficult to find a full time cartographer? Did you have to reach out to someone like a university or just placing an ad was fine?
    - ryandrake 7y ago
      I wasn’t personally involved in the hiring (we=Company) so I imagine they went where you usually go for graphic designers or UI experts and looked specifically for someone promoting themselves as a cartographer!
- ascorbic 7y ago
  They may use GIS now to do it, but cartographer is still very much a job in its own right. That may not always be the job title (though it still is in many places) but just as there are loads of front end developers who aren't any good at design, there are plenty of GIS engineers who can't design a great map. Likewise, whether they're called cartographers or geospatial data visualisation specialists, there are probably more people designing maps now than there ever have been.
LeonB 7y ago
I’ve worked in a team of cartographers and their numbers have dwindled and they’ve had to diversify their skillset over the last decade.

zeckalpha 7y ago

Next they’ll find out about audio tours

closeparen 7y ago

The National Geospatial Intelligence Agency employs ~16,000 people.

Cyph0n 7y ago
That’s an impressive number! USGS employs around 8000 according to Wikipedia.

JoeAltmaier 7y ago

I have a young acquaintance who is a working cartographer.