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My wife and I lived a very simple lifestyle for years (7ish) after college so we could pay off student loan debt. Awesome Ford Tempo car, local honeymoon, Studi

• jrs235 7y ago
  A lot of people got loans for degrees that don't pay. Or went a few years then dropped out. I went to a college known for its recreation management program. Cool industry. Not a lot of good paying jobs. I know a few universities with amazing turf programs... Only so many golf courses and turf fields that need someone with that kind of knowledge and that pay well. Most jobs in turf are mowing and applying chemicals that only one person on staff needs a big degree to ensure proper maintenance.
  • psaux 7y ago
    I have read that, thank you for posting. Schools are good at selling the vision for sure. Sister did photography, and is amazing at it. Just doesn’t pay the bills. In that context, we do need future poets and artists, and I am sure their jobs will not cover their loans, major loss.
    • zdragnar 7y ago
      > we do need future poets and artists, and I am sure their jobs will not cover their loans, major loss Do poets and artists need four+ year degrees, or degrees at all? Everything I've heard from friends who have gone to various programs have said that they actually really make it harder to be a good artist- whether from undermining your individual muse to cramping your style, or simply putting your mind in the box of what is "good" art. For that matter, does society need full-time artists and poets who have not yet proven their abilities to the point where they can sustain themselves at a level they are comfortable living with? Maybe, maybe not. There are jobs related to art (say, visual design or writing copy) that can be done on full or even limited part time basis.
      • spats1990 7y ago
        >There are jobs related to art (say, visual design or writing copy) that can be done on full or even limited part time basis. This is the part I don't get. You're totally right. The skills taught in liberal arts programs are actually useful. I think university liberal arts departments could do a much better job of pointing students toward areas where they could use their skills. I flinch when someone says their poli sci or history degree is useless. Those are extremely useful for journalism and all subfields/areas where your vocabulary pays your rent. If done right, those degrees make you a better writer and generalist /specialist researcher than like, I don't know, at least 60% of the general population. I got an English degree just because I like reading books and writing. I wanted to be a journalist, which where I'm from is generally another year of specialised training after a three-year undergraduate degree. Then I went and lived overseas a couple of times and didn't want to be a journalist anymore. Used my skills for other things. It worked out fine. The liberal arts are more useful in the workforce than many people think.
  • hermitdev 7y ago
    I think I remember hearing at one point that a degree in forestry was a very sought out degree at University of Montana. Enough so that they alone graduated more students with forestry degrees than there are annual opennings in US Gov or private industry. I dont have a reference for this, just anecdotal from when I grew up near University of Montana.
• m463 7y ago
  > Is there any data on if folks with student loans are living above their means? Literally every single friend of mine bought a new car when they graduated from college and got a job. Anecdotal, but I suspect it is more common than people realize. It doesn't mean they were living above their means, but I think buying a new car at the start might be a financial misstep.
  • Ididntdothis 7y ago
    I see that too. Most of the young engineers at my workplace never had a cheap car in their life. Their expectations are definitely much higher. I make quite a bit more and drive a Kia Rio. The young people almost all have cars that cost at least $10000 more.
  • hermitdev 7y ago
    I think it depends on the car and the job. I graduated in 2003 and had to buy a car. I was driving an 88 Chevy Blazer that was starting to hit around $750 per month in maintenance. Final straw was when a cylinder was losing compression. This was already on an SUV that had its engine rebuilt and had more than 165K miles on it. It had a Kelly Blue Book value of about $100. So, couple months out of college, I bought a modest Chevy Cavalier. Monthly payments were 1/3 of what I was paying in repairs, around $240/month. I could afford the car payments, I couldnt afford the monthly repairs. I didn't buy my first fun car for about another 4 years. By then, had a well paying job, only debt was what lingered on the previous car loan. At the time, didnt have a great salary, probably around $100k, but I was getting generous bonuses. Every bonus I had went to paying off atudent loans before I did anything more than a couple hundred splurge. I think that I had my student loans paid off in the first 3 years at my first salaried, full time job. I think the key, for me, is that when my income tripled from when I was an intern, I didn't change my lifestyle. I lived the same, with a slightly more expensive so I could be closer to work & public trans. Everything went to paying down debt. I think this is the misstep for younger people that suddenly come into earning a lot more money: more money in, increase the life style and spend the increase in income. It's an easy trap to make. And no, I'm not ragging on Millenials. Its a problem that has happened to previous generations in the same situation. I think it might be a lack of personal financial maturity (you know, out on your own, gobsmacked with more money youve ever seen in your life), not a generational thing. Edit: clarification about exspense on the old vehicle
• Clubber 7y ago
  My understanding of the main issues are: 1. Private colleges that spend a lot on marketing, cost a lot, and don't provide a worthwhile degree, nor transferrable credits. Think about all the unaccredited "tech" school advertisements all over the TV a few years ago. 2. Getting degrees that aren't marketable outside academia, such as Mideval Literature, etc. As an incoming college student, I had no idea what was a marketable career and what wasn't. Universities probably don't undermine their own departments either, so it can be a crap shoot. 3. Very expensive private liberal arts colleges, like the one Steve Jobs dropped out of. I'm sure there are other pain points, but a kid that gets an in-state, public college degree in something he can earn a living doing isn't much of an issue. Typically, it's the vultures that pray on government programs intended to help the citizens.
• runako 7y ago
  I'm curious on the timeframe here. Depending on when you graduated, a couple of things changed: - college pricing increased (duh), so a loan balance for a comparably situated student will just be higher for recent grads - median incomes for college graduates have risen a lot slower than the increase in college costs, so repayment will be more difficult at the median. (Even in engineering, this is true. Starting software engineering salaries ca. 1996 were in the range of 1.5x all-in fees for a year at a top private college. This ratio has moved decisively against students. Carnegie Mellon is quoting $74k for a year of education now, so the ratio is closer to 1.1x. Obviously it's easier to pay back loans if you earn more relative to the cost of the education. The numbers will be worse for people not pursuing a select few STEM degrees.) - employee health insurance premiums are frequently on top of these numbers, making the arithmetic worse for payback. - I'm sure there are other factors, especially when you add that some students go on to pursue fields (e.g. law) where similar dynamics are at play as well. So yeah, it's worse now than it was even a couple decades back.
  • zdragnar 7y ago
    Currently, average BA graduates have $28k in debt. $400 a month will pay that off in roughly 7 years, depending on the interest rate on the loan. Frugal living (aka sharing a studio apartment with a spouse, not eating out or making luxury purchases) makes that entirely doable, probably faster. OTOH, living above your means or lots of unexpected expenses (pet health care, personal health care, car maintenance, etc) can put that out of reach pretty quickly as well.
    • runako 7y ago
      > sharing a studio apartment with a spouse That reminds me, I forgot the other big item. Housing costs have risen tremendously. (Yes, even in places that are not the biggest cities and/or on a coast.) Basically: all the financial factors that changed, changed against new graduates. I'm struggling to think of a meaningful expense that is relatively lower now than it was in 1996, and I can't think of any. I'm not saying it's not doable at all. I'm just saying that 20 years ago that $28k in debt might have been $14k instead, the $400 might have been $200, housing + other expenses would have been lower, and the graduate's relatively higher salary would have made the arithmetic easier. Put another way: if one had to share a studio apartment with a spouse to make the math work in 1996, consider how much worse the picture would be today for e.g a person unfortunate enough to graduate college single and unable to share a studio with a spouse. As you point out: there's less room for error now, which aligns with more people speaking and writing about the topic.
• eirini1 7y ago
  living in your own studio (as opposed to a double room in a shared appartment), owning a car and going eating out on occasion definitely sounds much more luxurious than how most college graduates that I know of live right now. I think if you were to graduate today this would be unfeasible considering housing costs.
  • dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    Assuming ~90k of household income before taxes what he describes is definitely possible in the Boston area (which I know is not the most overpriced city but it's definitely on the leader board). You just can't be too good to live in an apartment where you see occasional mice and go out to eat at the Chinese buffet of questionable quality and drink mass produced domestic light beer. Basically you have to live below your means, not the way someone who's making STEM money is expected to live.
    • pnutjam 7y ago
      How many recent grads are making $90k? Not the majority. That's in the 83rd percentile of income Nationwide and 72nd percentile for Boston. source: https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-by-city-calculator/ https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-by-city-calculator/
      • dsfyu404ed 7y ago
        I said "household income" on purpose. Two recent grads making a combined 90k pre-tax is 45th percentile for a household for Boston (per the calculator you linked). You have to actually prioritize it and consequently make all your little day to day decisions with an eye towards cost (which is going to be very hard for an upper middle class person who's never done that in their life to suddenly start doing) but you can definitely aggressively pay down debt or save money.
• iso947 7y ago
  In the UK you’re describing a very high cost lifestyle. Your own place? A car?
  • brianmcc 7y ago
    London maybe - not wildly unrealistic for most other bits of the UK though.
  • alexgmcm 7y ago
    Yeah, but they also describe $100k as a 'not great' salary. Good luck ever earning that much in the UK, let alone a few years after graduating. I think Americans don't realise just how much richer the USA is than most of the world, including Western Europe.
• Nasrudith 7y ago
  A new TV even being listed among the others dates yourself significantly. TVs have been cheap for a while now. In a quick search to even get above $500 you need ones greater than 60". That sort of question is the new "How can poor people afford cellphones?" in terms of accidentally looking judgemental and out of touch by referencing past experiences without considering present reality.
• pnutjam 7y ago
  Went to school after my 1st child was born (back to school). Racked up debts to ITT tech (mistake) and it took me over 10 years to get to the income they promised in their sales spiel. About 18 years later I climbed out of the 2x poverty hole and I'm still looking at renting for the rest of my life. I've paid little on my loans and my oldest daughter is going to college next year. Alot of these student loans are to non-traditional students who were promised more then they were delivered.