5 ms·

I don't like the direction of "popular websites are exempt, small websites are restricted". Chrome has blocked autoplaying videos with sound for most sites exc

by dannyw 7y ago

I don't like the direction of "popular websites are exempt, small websites are restricted". Chrome has blocked autoplaying videos with sound for most sites except a small, hardcoded list that includes YouTube. This means that if you create a YouTube competitor today, you are playing at a technical disadvantage. Or if you're just hosting videos on your own personal website! What if Google's algorithms classify your new startup as "potential phishing", because users are re-using their own passwords on your site? How can you appeal? What recourse do you have against Big G's algorithm?

ljm 7y ago
I don’t like how it’ll become a new tracking datapoint. Google will learn about your passwords and of course that will be something that can be targeted through ads at some point. Even worse if you can use such targeting to figure out who is possibly vulnerable. Or maybe that’s just paranoid, but I don’t trust an advertising firm (which is all google is at heart) to not do this.
kerng 7y ago
That's what comes with market domintation. It's like Microsoft in late 90s. Get Firefox!
- criley2 7y ago
  Doesn't something like 95%+ of Mozilla foundation funding come from Firefox funneling users to Google? I like Firefox but it wouldn't necessarily exist if it wasn't part of the beast
  - paulryanrogers 7y ago
    Is there a widely supported alternative not already based on Blink or Webkit?
  - skinkestek 7y ago
    Why even mention that? Using Firefox makes a difference in many ways. That said I wish Mozilla would allow other forms for income and just be honest about it (unlike Pocket which I think is a good idea destroyed by them being sneaky about it.)
kevingadd 7y ago
It's just another variant on how right now, gmail can decide to spambin all the email you send, and it really doesn't matter why it decided to do it or who you are, because they can do whatever they want. An ever-increasing number of barriers stopping new companies from entering the market unless they're sitting on a big sack of venture capital.
- franga2000 7y ago
  To be fair, while Gmail is notorious for marking everything as spam, at least there are things you can do about it as a mail server admin. I am yet to find a way to get Outlook.com to stop blocking my entire mail server.
judge2020 7y ago
> except a small, hardcoded list that includes YouTube. No, it uses a Media Engagement Index and YouTube is on a list that includes a bunch of other video-focused websites like Netflix. > The MEI is meant to allow media heavy websites (e.g. YouTube, Netflix) that rely on autoplay for their core experience https://www.chromium.org/audio-video/autoplay https://www.chromium.org/audio-video/autoplay https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_278v_plodvgtXSgnEJ0yjZJLg14Ogf-ekAFNymAJoU/edit#heading=h.k7ytodjo0sin https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_278v_plodvgtXSgnEJ0yjZJ...
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  I don't understand how your statement contradicts the GP's?
  - scrollaway 7y ago
    It's not about how popular the website is, rather how video-centric it is.
    - blondin 7y ago
      what about disabling by default and letting us opt-in?
      - loeg 7y ago
        Chrome is weak about providing options, generally (and to the extent they do occasionally provide useful options, weak about keeping them from release to release).
    - dannyw 7y ago
      Only the top X sites are included in the preloaded list. Google designed an explicit popularity filter. If it was interaction only (so my site with 50 users that all interact with video make the list), that’s fine.
      - 7y ago
smacktoward 7y ago
Shockingly, the browser made by the operator of several of the world's most popular websites is applies its security policies less strictly to popular websites.
aawc 7y ago
Disclosure: I'm the TL of this project on Chrome and I work very closely with the Safe Browsing engineers regularly. > What if Google's algorithms classify your new startup as "potential phishing", because users are re-using their own passwords on your site? That's not how our phishing detection works. In fact, our internal studies show that a lot of users reuse their passwords often and while that's not the best password hygiene, it's the user's choice to make and we have to respect that and build protections with this in mind. > How can you appeal? Right from your search console. > What recourse do you have against Big G's algorithm? Ultimately, Google/Safe Browsing has a lot more to lose if their users stop trusting their product(s). I can tell you that we take false positives very seriously and try hard to provide a fair and speedy resolution.
- riquito 7y ago
  > I can tell you that we take false positives very seriously and try hard to provide a fair and speedy resolution. How/Where does one start this process?
  - joking 7y ago
    he told you, in the search console. Yo have to register your site and verificate it before you could appeal something.
    - tombrossman 7y ago
      This assumes that someone from every site has a Google account and consents to their Privacy Policy and Terms. This is not a safe assumption, nor is it fair to make this a requirement.
- LockAndLol 7y ago
  > Right from your search console. After the youtube banning debacle, can anybody really trust there are humans working in Google's tech support or that given the amount of traffic they receive that a ticket will be treated in acceptable time?
- deleted 7y ago
saagarjha 7y ago
> Chrome has blocked autoplaying videos with sound for most sites except a small, hardcoded list that includes YouTube. Safari does pretty much exactly this, FWIW.

by dannyw 7y ago

ljm 7y ago

I don’t like how it’ll become a new tracking datapoint. Google will learn about your passwords and of course that will be something that can be targeted through ads at some point. Even worse if you can use such targeting to figure out who is possibly vulnerable. Or maybe that’s just paranoid, but I don’t trust an advertising firm (which is all google is at heart) to not do this.

kerng 7y ago

That's what comes with market domintation. It's like Microsoft in late 90s. Get Firefox!

criley2 7y ago
Doesn't something like 95%+ of Mozilla foundation funding come from Firefox funneling users to Google? I like Firefox but it wouldn't necessarily exist if it wasn't part of the beast
- paulryanrogers 7y ago
  Is there a widely supported alternative not already based on Blink or Webkit?
- skinkestek 7y ago
  Why even mention that? Using Firefox makes a difference in many ways. That said I wish Mozilla would allow other forms for income and just be honest about it (unlike Pocket which I think is a good idea destroyed by them being sneaky about it.)

kevingadd 7y ago

It's just another variant on how right now, gmail can decide to spambin all the email you send, and it really doesn't matter why it decided to do it or who you are, because they can do whatever they want. An ever-increasing number of barriers stopping new companies from entering the market unless they're sitting on a big sack of venture capital.

franga2000 7y ago
To be fair, while Gmail is notorious for marking everything as spam, at least there are things you can do about it as a mail server admin. I am yet to find a way to get Outlook.com to stop blocking my entire mail server.

judge2020 7y ago

> except a small, hardcoded list that includes YouTube. No, it uses a Media Engagement Index and YouTube is on a list that includes a bunch of other video-focused websites like Netflix. > The MEI is meant to allow media heavy websites (e.g. YouTube, Netflix) that rely on autoplay for their core experience https://www.chromium.org/audio-video/autoplay https://www.chromium.org/audio-video/autoplay https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_278v_plodvgtXSgnEJ0yjZJLg14Ogf-ekAFNymAJoU/edit#heading=h.k7ytodjo0sin https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_278v_plodvgtXSgnEJ0yjZJ...

Wowfunhappy 7y ago
I don't understand how your statement contradicts the GP's?
- scrollaway 7y ago
  It's not about how popular the website is, rather how video-centric it is.
  - blondin 7y ago
    what about disabling by default and letting us opt-in?
    - loeg 7y ago
      Chrome is weak about providing options, generally (and to the extent they do occasionally provide useful options, weak about keeping them from release to release).
  - dannyw 7y ago
    Only the top X sites are included in the preloaded list. Google designed an explicit popularity filter. If it was interaction only (so my site with 50 users that all interact with video make the list), that’s fine.
    - 7y ago

smacktoward 7y ago

Shockingly, the browser made by the operator of several of the world's most popular websites is applies its security policies less strictly to popular websites.

aawc 7y ago

Disclosure: I'm the TL of this project on Chrome and I work very closely with the Safe Browsing engineers regularly. > What if Google's algorithms classify your new startup as "potential phishing", because users are re-using their own passwords on your site? That's not how our phishing detection works. In fact, our internal studies show that a lot of users reuse their passwords often and while that's not the best password hygiene, it's the user's choice to make and we have to respect that and build protections with this in mind. > How can you appeal? Right from your search console. > What recourse do you have against Big G's algorithm? Ultimately, Google/Safe Browsing has a lot more to lose if their users stop trusting their product(s). I can tell you that we take false positives very seriously and try hard to provide a fair and speedy resolution.

riquito 7y ago
> I can tell you that we take false positives very seriously and try hard to provide a fair and speedy resolution. How/Where does one start this process?
- joking 7y ago
  he told you, in the search console. Yo have to register your site and verificate it before you could appeal something.
  - tombrossman 7y ago
    This assumes that someone from every site has a Google account and consents to their Privacy Policy and Terms. This is not a safe assumption, nor is it fair to make this a requirement.
LockAndLol 7y ago
> Right from your search console. After the youtube banning debacle, can anybody really trust there are humans working in Google's tech support or that given the amount of traffic they receive that a ticket will be treated in acceptable time?
deleted 7y ago

saagarjha 7y ago

> Chrome has blocked autoplaying videos with sound for most sites except a small, hardcoded list that includes YouTube. Safari does pretty much exactly this, FWIW.