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As someone currently contemplating pursuing a PhD and working in the Public Health space, I don’t like this author’s take. Sure, many PhD students report a hig

As someone currently contemplating pursuing a PhD and working in the Public Health space, I don’t like this author’s take. Sure, many PhD students report a high burden of stress, but comparing this to the general population is a poor assumption. The prerequisites for getting into a PhD program (the least of which is an undergrad degree) already says something about the difference in the population. I think you could very easily reverse the causation. High stress people tend to seek PhDs rather than PhDs produce high stress people. And making the comparison to STDs as a health burden is naive. In the populations I’ve studied, the burden of STDs as a health issue falls almost exclusively on those with less education and lower opportunity. A PhD is a choice made by educated persons, STDs arise out of something that isn’t a choice made by educated persons. The stresses of grad school exist because the environment is deathly competitive. More people want to think for a living than there are positions to do so. I’m resolved to the fact that I would never pursue a PhD for the sole fact of getting a tenure track position, but rather because I want to challenge myself. If I do pursue a PhD, I’ll probably be another member of the population reporting elevated stress, but not because I didn’t choose that path. At the same time, I wonder if I won’t be just as stressed to pass on the opportunity.

sysbin 7y ago
When you imply people are making choices compared to others. What evidence are you making your assertion from besides assuming people choose what happens in life. People are born with variables that factor into what path they’re forced to experience. I think it’s great when people take a step back and try improving these paths for the benefit of the persons health. Otherwise progress from previous generations is being not used to the fullest.
- bransonf 7y ago
  I’m not sure I understand where you’re coming from... Even if not absolute, there is certainly more choice in pursuing a PhD than getting an STD. Maybe someone experiences pressure to pursue a PhD (I have to some extent) but the end choice is in their hands, and anyone seriously contemplating a PhD will quickly realize the stress associated with it. Of the couple dozen or so grad students I’ve talked to, they were fascinated by subject matter and decided to pursue it further. Most were well informed of the consequences (stress, job outlook) Pursuing a PhD signals privilege. Getting an STD does not.
  - sysbin 7y ago
    I'm asserting there is no choice. Depending on the life born into, one will lead to a certain path compared to a different life. Since everything depends on the birth, genetics, parent financial status, geographic location, and the chain of external forces (events) that happen where every previous event factors into the equation. You on the other hand are asserting that you believe people can choose and while ignoring how that can even be the case.
    - bransonf 7y ago
      I see. We disagree on a philosophical basis. I’m not a determinist. That said, I can respect that you are.
      - sysbin 7y ago
        Why are you not a determinist when studying sociology? What gives you the idea that people are choosing things. Research related to neuroscience about how the brain effects people should be enough with the logic of understanding determinism. Also how can you make a choice that's truly your own without being effected by the system you're in. Nothing is different than your birth (we didn't have choice over) and people just like to assume what follows is different because of how society conditions us to assume it.
analog31 7y ago
>>> The stresses of grad school exist because the environment is deathly competitive. I believe there's much more to it. I've got a PhD, as does my spouse, my brother, and a couple other relatives. There are three major stress sources to consider: 1. You get nothing until you finish, and there are many things that can knock you off the rails: Your advisor can lose funding. He can lose his job, move to another town, or even up and die on you. You can encounter health or family problems that force you to go on leave, with no safety net or assurance that you can get back into a program. Every day you spend exposes you to a risk that you won't finish and become "the most miserable person in the world: The grad school dropout" to quote Matt Groening. 2. You're working directly for a person who is under little or no supervision, ethical control, etc. Students are at risk of getting overworked, harassed, and bullied by their advisors. 3. You're basically working alone with nobody to motivate you or help you pace your work, and nobody has a vested interest in your progress.
Dumblydorr 7y ago
You need to talk to a lot more PhD students before you pursue this. I dropped out of a PhD in public health because my advisor was terrible and didn't care about my progress, lied to me about how long it'd take, and eventually dropped me like a fried laptop when she needed more time. Every one of her students dreaded the hour meetings with her more than any other activity. I got a massive rush of relief and happiness every time I left her office. Furthermore, after all of this, she handed my research to a post doc for him to be first author. If you want a challenge, climb a mountain. If you want a terrible time, join a PhD program.
- majos 7y ago
  Sounds like a bad advisor. One question though, did you get a sense of this from current students before accepting the offer? I’m not suggesting the situation is your fault for not knowing. But part of my advice to potential grad students is to talk to several current students of the advisor you’re considering. Reasonable advisors will not be offended by this, and if done in an informal off-the-record way (e.g. in person), I think most grad students will be honest about a bad advisor. Or at least impart some feeling for how their experience has been. For example, I personally know of cases where current students explicitly warned against working with an advisor during the admitted phd student visit day. Not trying to argue that you should have avoided the situation, but I am curious about cases where the talk-to-current-students advice breaks down.

sysbin 7y ago

When you imply people are making choices compared to others. What evidence are you making your assertion from besides assuming people choose what happens in life. People are born with variables that factor into what path they’re forced to experience. I think it’s great when people take a step back and try improving these paths for the benefit of the persons health. Otherwise progress from previous generations is being not used to the fullest.

bransonf 7y ago
I’m not sure I understand where you’re coming from... Even if not absolute, there is certainly more choice in pursuing a PhD than getting an STD. Maybe someone experiences pressure to pursue a PhD (I have to some extent) but the end choice is in their hands, and anyone seriously contemplating a PhD will quickly realize the stress associated with it. Of the couple dozen or so grad students I’ve talked to, they were fascinated by subject matter and decided to pursue it further. Most were well informed of the consequences (stress, job outlook) Pursuing a PhD signals privilege. Getting an STD does not.
- sysbin 7y ago
  I'm asserting there is no choice. Depending on the life born into, one will lead to a certain path compared to a different life. Since everything depends on the birth, genetics, parent financial status, geographic location, and the chain of external forces (events) that happen where every previous event factors into the equation. You on the other hand are asserting that you believe people can choose and while ignoring how that can even be the case.
  - bransonf 7y ago
    I see. We disagree on a philosophical basis. I’m not a determinist. That said, I can respect that you are.
    - sysbin 7y ago
      Why are you not a determinist when studying sociology? What gives you the idea that people are choosing things. Research related to neuroscience about how the brain effects people should be enough with the logic of understanding determinism. Also how can you make a choice that's truly your own without being effected by the system you're in. Nothing is different than your birth (we didn't have choice over) and people just like to assume what follows is different because of how society conditions us to assume it.

analog31 7y ago

>>> The stresses of grad school exist because the environment is deathly competitive. I believe there's much more to it. I've got a PhD, as does my spouse, my brother, and a couple other relatives. There are three major stress sources to consider: 1. You get nothing until you finish, and there are many things that can knock you off the rails: Your advisor can lose funding. He can lose his job, move to another town, or even up and die on you. You can encounter health or family problems that force you to go on leave, with no safety net or assurance that you can get back into a program. Every day you spend exposes you to a risk that you won't finish and become "the most miserable person in the world: The grad school dropout" to quote Matt Groening. 2. You're working directly for a person who is under little or no supervision, ethical control, etc. Students are at risk of getting overworked, harassed, and bullied by their advisors. 3. You're basically working alone with nobody to motivate you or help you pace your work, and nobody has a vested interest in your progress.

Dumblydorr 7y ago

You need to talk to a lot more PhD students before you pursue this. I dropped out of a PhD in public health because my advisor was terrible and didn't care about my progress, lied to me about how long it'd take, and eventually dropped me like a fried laptop when she needed more time. Every one of her students dreaded the hour meetings with her more than any other activity. I got a massive rush of relief and happiness every time I left her office. Furthermore, after all of this, she handed my research to a post doc for him to be first author. If you want a challenge, climb a mountain. If you want a terrible time, join a PhD program.

majos 7y ago
Sounds like a bad advisor. One question though, did you get a sense of this from current students before accepting the offer? I’m not suggesting the situation is your fault for not knowing. But part of my advice to potential grad students is to talk to several current students of the advisor you’re considering. Reasonable advisors will not be offended by this, and if done in an informal off-the-record way (e.g. in person), I think most grad students will be honest about a bad advisor. Or at least impart some feeling for how their experience has been. For example, I personally know of cases where current students explicitly warned against working with an advisor during the admitted phd student visit day. Not trying to argue that you should have avoided the situation, but I am curious about cases where the talk-to-current-students advice breaks down.