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Fearmongering; this is a legal issue, not a technical one. Does anyone really think they're going to save themselves from thieves by turning off bluetooth? I ho

by bdamm 7y ago

Fearmongering; this is a legal issue, not a technical one. Does anyone really think they're going to save themselves from thieves by turning off bluetooth? I hope nobody is that naive. This kind of thing also popped up when people realized that thieves could scan and replay early remote commands to unlock cars (and still can for some models!) Was the answer to not use car remotes? Maybe, but for most of us the answer was to make sure your car insurance is up to date and covers theft. Having a car without dents or scratches is attractive. Having visible chargers in your car is attractive. What thieves will find attractive will change over time. Get insurance, do the basic stuff you can to avoid having valuables in your car or advertising yourself as a mark, and don't worry about the rest. When the inevitable happens let your friends take you out for a drink and move on.

endorphone 7y ago
"this is a legal issue, not a technical one" What does this even mean? If you get stabbed while withdrawing money from the skid row ATM at 2am, are your final words "This is a legal issue, not a ғɪɴᴀɴᴄɪᴀʟ ᴏɴᴇ"? Yes, people aren't supposed to break into your car, and they're bad, bad people if they do. For the sorts of people that do there is clearly a cost/benefit analysis, where the cost is the risk. Smashing into a dozen cars just hoping to find something valuable is quite a degree removed from knowing that certain vehicles have valuables, and even what those valuables are. And saying "get insurance" is weak sauce. Yeah, most of us have insurance. All of us, I suspect, never want the hassle and annoyance of claiming on it, or dealing with the BS involved with having one's car broken into.
- nothrabannosir 7y ago
  I think the argument is to say that to yourself before you’re taking a car’s / laptop’s / phone’s worth of money out of an ATM, get insurance, and give people with a knife what they want before they stab you.
  - perl4ever 7y ago
    Well, but you can't take that much money out of an ATM, in my experience. And if they stab you anyway, after you give them what you have, what do you say? "We had a contract!"
- greggman2 7y ago
  This is one of those crimes I'm curious why the police in certain areas don't do more to stop. SF is the worst place I've been for this. You can literally walk down Folsom street or around Dolores Park and see that every 2nd or 3rd car window was smashed the night before. Leave anything showing and your car will be broken into. It's so common it's hard not to notice the glass everywhere from previously broken windows. Given it's so common it seems like the police could just put a few honey pot cars out and the problem would be solved but they don't care to solve it. LA is also bad though not as bad as SF. I've had my car broken into 6 times and stolen once. One I installed a removable stereo, forgot to remove it first day, windows smashed, stereo gone. Got a new one, it lasted 2-3 months. After that had to use a cheap portable boombox (no money for new car stereo). That lasted a few months until someone bust into car in my apartment's garage and apparently tried to steal the car. The steering column was jacked up and the car repair said that was from trying to steal the car. Those were in West LA. My car itself was stolen in Costa Mesa. The replacement was a used Samurai Suzuki (all I could afford). It had a $10 cheapo radio that was stolen in Huntington Beach (no need to break into the car for that). The 2 times, one time I think I forgot to take down the dash cam. Another I forgot to lock it, there was nothing showing but apparently someone was just checking for unlocked cars. Then again maybe I'm just used to living in a country like Japan where breaking into cars is mostly not a thing and so you can leave stuff in your car and you can have nice non-removable car stereos and not have to worry about your car getting broken into and getting stolen. It's funny/sad to me how having grown up in the USA I just took it for granted than having your car broken into and/or stolen was just a normal part of life in the world. Luckily I learned it's not though it can be also be sad to have your eyes opened just how messed up your country of origin really is.
  - ALittleLight 7y ago
    I would not impute this level of criminality to the whole of the USA.
    - greggman2 7y ago
      Good point. I would love to know why it's not a solvable issue. Not saying it's easy and I'm sure there's multiple reasons, some maybe unsolvable.
azernik 7y ago
This is a security issue. Part of the solution is legal, part is technical. If a type of house lock or alarm system is defective, it's still important for the problems to be fixed in the next generation and for owners to upgrade or patch the problem.
- atoav 7y ago
  And the roots are socioeconomical. The only lasting solution is targeting the roots that motivate/force people to steal in the first place, but this is obviously a more complicated and long term endavour, which depends on a political will that is currently nonexistent. In other nations with a better social system this worked quite well however.
  - opo 7y ago
    Which countries have a significantly low car theft rate? In the US: >...in 2017. In 2018, 748,841 vehicles were stolen, down 3.1 percent from 772,943 vehicles in 2017. Meanwhile in Europe: >...Police in the EU recorded on average 697 000 car thefts yearly over the period 2015 to 2017, a 29% reduction compared to the period 2008 to 2010 (yearly average 983 000). https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-auto-theft https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-auto-the... https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/DDN-20191104-1 https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/D...
    - RandallBrown 7y ago
      Stealing the whole car vs. stealing objects inside the car is completely different. Do you have numbers for that?
      - hermitdev 7y ago
        I dont have stats, but in the 00's, my brother who lived in west Seattle at the time, had his SUV broken into 3 times in a short period. They ignored the stock stereo, hundreds of CDs, expensive set of golf clubs. Besides smashing a window, what was the damage? They stole his headlights. This was back when xenon headlights were novel. From what I recall, the police told him was something along the lines of "we'll never recover the parts and we'll likely never catch the crooks". Basically, they cant fulfill their job, and my brother was told to get ready for the insurance rate hike.
syshum 7y ago
>>> that thieves could scan and replay early remote commands to unlock cars (and still can for some models!) Was the answer to not use car remotes? That is a bad example because the solution was a technical one, Auto Manufacturers changed the way the Remote controls work so you can not simply scan and reply.
commandersaki 7y ago
Technology can build in anti-theft systems. This is a feature of the new iDevices and T2 laptop line by Apple. Fun story a colleague bricked a MacBook Pro by simply erasing the hard drive which kicked in the T2 anti-theft system. Top case (keyboard), logic board, drive, fans, T2 board, etc. all had to be replaced to restore it in working condition. That is a $1800 repair on a $3000 laptop. I think the parts may have to authenticate to the chip so a full parts replacement needed to be done. Or Apple was being wasteful, one of the two.
chipotle_coyote 7y ago
> Get insurance, do the basic stuff you can to avoid having valuables in your car or advertising yourself as a mark... Is obviously good advice, but > Does anyone really think they're going to save themselves from thieves by turning off bluetooth? I hope nobody is that naive. Do I think turning off Bluetooth will reduce the chance of a thief using a Bluetooth scanner to find something in my car? Why, yes. Yes, I do. Obviously, the best answer is "don't leave your laptop and other valuable electronics in your car," but if that's not practical -- for instance, if you're traveling with both a work laptop and a personal one and can't realistically bring both of them into a restaurant with you -- then c'mon, take a couple seconds to turn off Bluetooth.
wh1t3n01s3 7y ago
Insurance has nothing to do with this not the remote car anecdote. And yes, we are that naive! It’s like leaving your nice bag on the seat. It’s better not to do that. Wheater you’re insured or not. Anyway I’m happy there are people like you around, it means I will get robbed less likely! Sorry for my bad English
burntoutfire 7y ago
I don't buy theft insurance. In my country, the yearly premium is 1-2% of the value of the car, while the rate of theft is much below 1%. Seems like a terrible deal, unless you don't have the cash on hand to buy the replacement car.

by bdamm 7y ago

endorphone 7y ago

"this is a legal issue, not a technical one" What does this even mean? If you get stabbed while withdrawing money from the skid row ATM at 2am, are your final words "This is a legal issue, not a ғɪɴᴀɴᴄɪᴀʟ ᴏɴᴇ"? Yes, people aren't supposed to break into your car, and they're bad, bad people if they do. For the sorts of people that do there is clearly a cost/benefit analysis, where the cost is the risk. Smashing into a dozen cars just hoping to find something valuable is quite a degree removed from knowing that certain vehicles have valuables, and even what those valuables are. And saying "get insurance" is weak sauce. Yeah, most of us have insurance. All of us, I suspect, never want the hassle and annoyance of claiming on it, or dealing with the BS involved with having one's car broken into.

nothrabannosir 7y ago
I think the argument is to say that to yourself before you’re taking a car’s / laptop’s / phone’s worth of money out of an ATM, get insurance, and give people with a knife what they want before they stab you.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  Well, but you can't take that much money out of an ATM, in my experience. And if they stab you anyway, after you give them what you have, what do you say? "We had a contract!"
greggman2 7y ago
This is one of those crimes I'm curious why the police in certain areas don't do more to stop. SF is the worst place I've been for this. You can literally walk down Folsom street or around Dolores Park and see that every 2nd or 3rd car window was smashed the night before. Leave anything showing and your car will be broken into. It's so common it's hard not to notice the glass everywhere from previously broken windows. Given it's so common it seems like the police could just put a few honey pot cars out and the problem would be solved but they don't care to solve it. LA is also bad though not as bad as SF. I've had my car broken into 6 times and stolen once. One I installed a removable stereo, forgot to remove it first day, windows smashed, stereo gone. Got a new one, it lasted 2-3 months. After that had to use a cheap portable boombox (no money for new car stereo). That lasted a few months until someone bust into car in my apartment's garage and apparently tried to steal the car. The steering column was jacked up and the car repair said that was from trying to steal the car. Those were in West LA. My car itself was stolen in Costa Mesa. The replacement was a used Samurai Suzuki (all I could afford). It had a $10 cheapo radio that was stolen in Huntington Beach (no need to break into the car for that). The 2 times, one time I think I forgot to take down the dash cam. Another I forgot to lock it, there was nothing showing but apparently someone was just checking for unlocked cars. Then again maybe I'm just used to living in a country like Japan where breaking into cars is mostly not a thing and so you can leave stuff in your car and you can have nice non-removable car stereos and not have to worry about your car getting broken into and getting stolen. It's funny/sad to me how having grown up in the USA I just took it for granted than having your car broken into and/or stolen was just a normal part of life in the world. Luckily I learned it's not though it can be also be sad to have your eyes opened just how messed up your country of origin really is.
- ALittleLight 7y ago
  I would not impute this level of criminality to the whole of the USA.
  - greggman2 7y ago
    Good point. I would love to know why it's not a solvable issue. Not saying it's easy and I'm sure there's multiple reasons, some maybe unsolvable.

azernik 7y ago

This is a security issue. Part of the solution is legal, part is technical. If a type of house lock or alarm system is defective, it's still important for the problems to be fixed in the next generation and for owners to upgrade or patch the problem.

atoav 7y ago
And the roots are socioeconomical. The only lasting solution is targeting the roots that motivate/force people to steal in the first place, but this is obviously a more complicated and long term endavour, which depends on a political will that is currently nonexistent. In other nations with a better social system this worked quite well however.
- opo 7y ago
  Which countries have a significantly low car theft rate? In the US: >...in 2017. In 2018, 748,841 vehicles were stolen, down 3.1 percent from 772,943 vehicles in 2017. Meanwhile in Europe: >...Police in the EU recorded on average 697 000 car thefts yearly over the period 2015 to 2017, a 29% reduction compared to the period 2008 to 2010 (yearly average 983 000). https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-auto-theft https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-auto-the... https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/DDN-20191104-1 https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/D...
  - RandallBrown 7y ago
    Stealing the whole car vs. stealing objects inside the car is completely different. Do you have numbers for that?
    - hermitdev 7y ago
      I dont have stats, but in the 00's, my brother who lived in west Seattle at the time, had his SUV broken into 3 times in a short period. They ignored the stock stereo, hundreds of CDs, expensive set of golf clubs. Besides smashing a window, what was the damage? They stole his headlights. This was back when xenon headlights were novel. From what I recall, the police told him was something along the lines of "we'll never recover the parts and we'll likely never catch the crooks". Basically, they cant fulfill their job, and my brother was told to get ready for the insurance rate hike.

syshum 7y ago

>>> that thieves could scan and replay early remote commands to unlock cars (and still can for some models!) Was the answer to not use car remotes? That is a bad example because the solution was a technical one, Auto Manufacturers changed the way the Remote controls work so you can not simply scan and reply.

commandersaki 7y ago

Technology can build in anti-theft systems. This is a feature of the new iDevices and T2 laptop line by Apple. Fun story a colleague bricked a MacBook Pro by simply erasing the hard drive which kicked in the T2 anti-theft system. Top case (keyboard), logic board, drive, fans, T2 board, etc. all had to be replaced to restore it in working condition. That is a $1800 repair on a $3000 laptop. I think the parts may have to authenticate to the chip so a full parts replacement needed to be done. Or Apple was being wasteful, one of the two.

chipotle_coyote 7y ago

> Get insurance, do the basic stuff you can to avoid having valuables in your car or advertising yourself as a mark... Is obviously good advice, but > Does anyone really think they're going to save themselves from thieves by turning off bluetooth? I hope nobody is that naive. Do I think turning off Bluetooth will reduce the chance of a thief using a Bluetooth scanner to find something in my car? Why, yes. Yes, I do. Obviously, the best answer is "don't leave your laptop and other valuable electronics in your car," but if that's not practical -- for instance, if you're traveling with both a work laptop and a personal one and can't realistically bring both of them into a restaurant with you -- then c'mon, take a couple seconds to turn off Bluetooth.

wh1t3n01s3 7y ago

Insurance has nothing to do with this not the remote car anecdote. And yes, we are that naive! It’s like leaving your nice bag on the seat. It’s better not to do that. Wheater you’re insured or not. Anyway I’m happy there are people like you around, it means I will get robbed less likely! Sorry for my bad English

burntoutfire 7y ago

I don't buy theft insurance. In my country, the yearly premium is 1-2% of the value of the car, while the rate of theft is much below 1%. Seems like a terrible deal, unless you don't have the cash on hand to buy the replacement car.