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I hope there is a light at the end of the tunnel for all of this. It seems like there will always be a cat and mouse effort to be just one step ahead of the oth

I hope there is a light at the end of the tunnel for all of this. It seems like there will always be a cat and mouse effort to be just one step ahead of the other. Like how many websites have those popups now where they ask you to turn off ad-blocking. Intrusive ads and website tracking should both be a problem by default. I guess not all ads can be a problem, but I am unsure if the same could be said about tracking...

umvi 7y ago
2021: "Preventing Tracking Prevention Tracking Prevention Tracking"
- HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
  [2019/12/12] [Hotfix] Pre-Emptive Tracking of Track-Preventative Tracking Users by Home Address
om2 7y ago
We're willing to play the cat and mouse game indefinitely, if that's what it takes. Widely deployed trackers are limited in how fast they can try new tricks. And in practice, we know that ITP is working pretty well to block cross-site tracking: https://daringfireball.net/linked/2019/12/09/the-information-ad-tracking https://daringfireball.net/linked/2019/12/09/the-information...
- saagarjha 7y ago
  > Widely deployed trackers are limited in how fast they can try new tricks. How so? Tracking scripts are often included by a script tag that points at a website. Can’t the code be updated, “deployed” to websites immediately, and take advantage of the relatively slower release cycle of Safari?
  - om2 7y ago
    Maybe I should have said that some tricks are slow to deploy. Sometimes the publisher only embeds an image form the tracker (the famed "tracking pixel"). Getting lots of sites to change that to script is a pain. Sometimes they need to deploy new server-side tech for a workaround. For the recent CNAME cloaking trick, they have to get sites to modify their DNS and change what URL they embed script from.
- coleifer 7y ago
  You're doing good work, thank you.
paggle 7y ago
Whether it’s a light or not, the end of the tunnel is in sight, it’s the ads becoming the content.
- baroffoos 7y ago
  This is so prevalent already. Brands disguised as users posting "content" that is mostly just an advert for their brand. It has got to the point where any time someone posts something that seems to too clearly show a brand name or speaks too highly of a product I suspect its the PR people at work and I downvote it.
  - applecrazy 7y ago
    There’s a marketing term for it, too. It’s called “native advertising.”
    - rhizome 7y ago
      "Native advertising" was originally ads that were served by the site itself, first-party. It's advertisers who have co-opted it (yet again), but that doesn't mean you have to go along with their preferences. Typing isn't hard and "sponcon" (sponsored content) is already perfectly cromulent jargon, as well as being shorter.
  - paggle 7y ago
    The old way: tracking you as you look for snowboarding videos on the Web and advertising you a snowmobile wherever you go. The new way: making sure that 95% of the snowboarding videos you see are subliminally designed to sell you a snowboard (the guy riding the competitors snowboard goes slower and crashes... the guy riding your company’s snowboard wins the race and his girlfriend looks like a supermodel) I think eventually we will pine for the old way. Already you can’t get useful reviews anymore because all of the “comparison” searches are run by manufacturer mouthpieces.
    - baroffoos 7y ago
thayne 7y ago
And how much real functionality will be sacrificed to this war?
rypskar 7y ago
>> Like how many websites have those popups now where they ask you to turn off ad-blocking Handle them the same way as websites with a cookie or gdpr warning that blocks everything else, vote with your valet by leaving the site and find another site instead

umvi 7y ago

2021: "Preventing Tracking Prevention Tracking Prevention Tracking"

HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
[2019/12/12] [Hotfix] Pre-Emptive Tracking of Track-Preventative Tracking Users by Home Address

om2 7y ago

We're willing to play the cat and mouse game indefinitely, if that's what it takes. Widely deployed trackers are limited in how fast they can try new tricks. And in practice, we know that ITP is working pretty well to block cross-site tracking: https://daringfireball.net/linked/2019/12/09/the-information-ad-tracking https://daringfireball.net/linked/2019/12/09/the-information...

saagarjha 7y ago
> Widely deployed trackers are limited in how fast they can try new tricks. How so? Tracking scripts are often included by a script tag that points at a website. Can’t the code be updated, “deployed” to websites immediately, and take advantage of the relatively slower release cycle of Safari?
- om2 7y ago
  Maybe I should have said that some tricks are slow to deploy. Sometimes the publisher only embeds an image form the tracker (the famed "tracking pixel"). Getting lots of sites to change that to script is a pain. Sometimes they need to deploy new server-side tech for a workaround. For the recent CNAME cloaking trick, they have to get sites to modify their DNS and change what URL they embed script from.
coleifer 7y ago
You're doing good work, thank you.

paggle 7y ago

Whether it’s a light or not, the end of the tunnel is in sight, it’s the ads becoming the content.

baroffoos 7y ago
This is so prevalent already. Brands disguised as users posting "content" that is mostly just an advert for their brand. It has got to the point where any time someone posts something that seems to too clearly show a brand name or speaks too highly of a product I suspect its the PR people at work and I downvote it.
- applecrazy 7y ago
  There’s a marketing term for it, too. It’s called “native advertising.”
  - rhizome 7y ago
    "Native advertising" was originally ads that were served by the site itself, first-party. It's advertisers who have co-opted it (yet again), but that doesn't mean you have to go along with their preferences. Typing isn't hard and "sponcon" (sponsored content) is already perfectly cromulent jargon, as well as being shorter.
- paggle 7y ago
  The old way: tracking you as you look for snowboarding videos on the Web and advertising you a snowmobile wherever you go. The new way: making sure that 95% of the snowboarding videos you see are subliminally designed to sell you a snowboard (the guy riding the competitors snowboard goes slower and crashes... the guy riding your company’s snowboard wins the race and his girlfriend looks like a supermodel) I think eventually we will pine for the old way. Already you can’t get useful reviews anymore because all of the “comparison” searches are run by manufacturer mouthpieces.
  - baroffoos 7y ago

thayne 7y ago

And how much real functionality will be sacrificed to this war?

rypskar 7y ago

>> Like how many websites have those popups now where they ask you to turn off ad-blocking Handle them the same way as websites with a cookie or gdpr warning that blocks everything else, vote with your valet by leaving the site and find another site instead