5 ms·

I have a hunch it's the bit about the parking that is illegal. To be honest, the whole post rubbed me wrong- like an industry shill or something trying to star

by dhimes 7y ago

I have a hunch it's the bit about the parking that is illegal. To be honest, the whole post rubbed me wrong- like an industry shill or something trying to start some grass-roots anti-building-regulation discord.

chrisco255 7y ago
Uhh, have you heard about the housing affordability problem in many states? The zoning regulations have created cookie cutter cul-de-sac neighborhoods that have contributed to unnatural sprawl. It's very difficult to even innovate in housing and commercial design due to these restrictions.
- big_chungus 7y ago
  In Houston, the same thing has happened without zoning. Have you perhaps considered that there is a massive market for "cookie cutter" suburban housing? HOAs have also largely taken the place of zoning, on a hyper-localized level. Furthermore, lots of other stupid rules apply, aside from zoning, that limit the ability to build new housing.
  - shkkmo 7y ago
    That market was deliberately stoked by FHA and mortgage lending restrictions. The thread itself points out that these issues are not soley the result of zoning. > While single family zoning was reserved for homeowners (read: White), multi-family housing was seen as being for renters, (people of color). > State, federal, and local governments all conspired to limit homebuying and lending to whites for decades.
    - big_chungus 7y ago
      You're not providing any causal link. You are effectively positing that a whites-only neighborhood will spontaneously organize into suburbia, but an integrated one will not? Would you please provide some evidence or background reading to support that?
      - chrisco255 7y ago
        I won't speak to the race issues but as a former realtor I dealt with FHA loans and they have asinine restrictions on them. I had to get local ordinance exceptions on a number of issues to get a loan approved for some buyers. It was a mess. They required certain lot sizes and certain dimensions. And while FHA has lost its luster a bit over the decades, it used to be a much more common type of loan, as it was one of the few ways to buy without putting a lot of money down.
      - shkkmo 7y ago
        I was quoting the Twitter thread to show that it discussed alternate causes beyond zoning, not making any of the claims that you seem to have taken issue with.
- dhimes 7y ago
  Uhh yeah. It’s not because of setbacks or hurricane structural requirements or parking spaces. The “cookie cutter cul-de-sac” neighborhoods are the affordable neighborhoods built to fight that. What you present as evidence contradicts your thesis. I lived there. And affordability is why.
  - zip1234 7y ago
    A section of publicly owned and maintained road that only 5 families ever use and only for residential use is not a good use of resources and is affordable only if you live there. It is being subsidized by people that live in denser areas unless the roads are paid for by an internal home owner's association.
    - dhimes 7y ago
      Yes- we had to handle the roads as a home owner's association (the developer had to build them).
tmh79 7y ago
I mean, I am not an industry shill, but I also believe that modern zoning and building codes (not the safety codes, but things like parking) make the kind of places that I would enjoy living "illegal to build today". There are a lot of bad regulations in the building codes today. Fireproofing, egress, and siesmic stuff is great, absurdly low FAR in urban areas? 2 parking spaces per unit? That ruins any chance of walkability.
- dhimes 7y ago
  It may change in the future, but if you have a home with two working adults you need to allow for roughly two cars per family (like, 180 per 200 units). Otherwise you have serious community issues. I’ve been president of a community. There are reasons that these rules are asked for and obtained. I don’t like them all, but they solve problems. The setback shot showed pedestrians. What if there were cars in that street- and people in wheelchairs also trying to maneuver down the street?
  - jefftk 7y ago
    Even places with public transit good enough that you don't have to have a car (ex: Somerville MA, where we live) generally require off street parking. Setbacks are not the same as sidewalks. You can allow buildings to run right to the sidewalk without pushing pedestrians/wheelchairs into the street.
    - dhimes 7y ago
      Indeed. I tell people that what the world knows about urban development comes from mistakes made in MA. I live here too. Not in Somerville- I’m up in Marblehead- but I moved from Gaithersburg MD. At first I was annoyed by the regs when I moved to MD, but then I came to understand why they are there. I love big brother...
      - jefftk 7y ago
        I'm not sure what you're saying; I don't think Somerville should require parking (though if you choose to build units without off-street parking I think there should be ineligible for on-street parking).
andoriyu 7y ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/6lvwh4/im_an_architect_in_la_specializing_in_multifamily/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/6lvwh4/im_an_ar...

by dhimes 7y ago

chrisco255 7y ago

Uhh, have you heard about the housing affordability problem in many states? The zoning regulations have created cookie cutter cul-de-sac neighborhoods that have contributed to unnatural sprawl. It's very difficult to even innovate in housing and commercial design due to these restrictions.

big_chungus 7y ago
In Houston, the same thing has happened without zoning. Have you perhaps considered that there is a massive market for "cookie cutter" suburban housing? HOAs have also largely taken the place of zoning, on a hyper-localized level. Furthermore, lots of other stupid rules apply, aside from zoning, that limit the ability to build new housing.
- shkkmo 7y ago
  That market was deliberately stoked by FHA and mortgage lending restrictions. The thread itself points out that these issues are not soley the result of zoning. > While single family zoning was reserved for homeowners (read: White), multi-family housing was seen as being for renters, (people of color). > State, federal, and local governments all conspired to limit homebuying and lending to whites for decades.
  - big_chungus 7y ago
    You're not providing any causal link. You are effectively positing that a whites-only neighborhood will spontaneously organize into suburbia, but an integrated one will not? Would you please provide some evidence or background reading to support that?
    - chrisco255 7y ago
      I won't speak to the race issues but as a former realtor I dealt with FHA loans and they have asinine restrictions on them. I had to get local ordinance exceptions on a number of issues to get a loan approved for some buyers. It was a mess. They required certain lot sizes and certain dimensions. And while FHA has lost its luster a bit over the decades, it used to be a much more common type of loan, as it was one of the few ways to buy without putting a lot of money down.
    - shkkmo 7y ago
      I was quoting the Twitter thread to show that it discussed alternate causes beyond zoning, not making any of the claims that you seem to have taken issue with.
dhimes 7y ago
Uhh yeah. It’s not because of setbacks or hurricane structural requirements or parking spaces. The “cookie cutter cul-de-sac” neighborhoods are the affordable neighborhoods built to fight that. What you present as evidence contradicts your thesis. I lived there. And affordability is why.
- zip1234 7y ago
  A section of publicly owned and maintained road that only 5 families ever use and only for residential use is not a good use of resources and is affordable only if you live there. It is being subsidized by people that live in denser areas unless the roads are paid for by an internal home owner's association.
  - dhimes 7y ago
    Yes- we had to handle the roads as a home owner's association (the developer had to build them).

tmh79 7y ago

I mean, I am not an industry shill, but I also believe that modern zoning and building codes (not the safety codes, but things like parking) make the kind of places that I would enjoy living "illegal to build today". There are a lot of bad regulations in the building codes today. Fireproofing, egress, and siesmic stuff is great, absurdly low FAR in urban areas? 2 parking spaces per unit? That ruins any chance of walkability.

dhimes 7y ago
It may change in the future, but if you have a home with two working adults you need to allow for roughly two cars per family (like, 180 per 200 units). Otherwise you have serious community issues. I’ve been president of a community. There are reasons that these rules are asked for and obtained. I don’t like them all, but they solve problems. The setback shot showed pedestrians. What if there were cars in that street- and people in wheelchairs also trying to maneuver down the street?
- jefftk 7y ago
  Even places with public transit good enough that you don't have to have a car (ex: Somerville MA, where we live) generally require off street parking. Setbacks are not the same as sidewalks. You can allow buildings to run right to the sidewalk without pushing pedestrians/wheelchairs into the street.
  - dhimes 7y ago
    Indeed. I tell people that what the world knows about urban development comes from mistakes made in MA. I live here too. Not in Somerville- I’m up in Marblehead- but I moved from Gaithersburg MD. At first I was annoyed by the regs when I moved to MD, but then I came to understand why they are there. I love big brother...
    - jefftk 7y ago
      I'm not sure what you're saying; I don't think Somerville should require parking (though if you choose to build units without off-street parking I think there should be ineligible for on-street parking).

andoriyu 7y ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/6lvwh4/im_an_architect_in_la_specializing_in_multifamily/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/6lvwh4/im_an_ar...