7 ms·
The fact that Raytheon is hiring mainland-born engineers to work anywhere near the Patriot missile system is basically malicious incompetence EDIT I take it al
by djohnston 7y ago
The fact that Raytheon is hiring mainland-born engineers to work anywhere near the Patriot missile system is basically malicious incompetence
EDIT I take it all back. There is nothing wrong with this.
- saagarjha 7y agoDiscriminating solely on country of origin is illegal, I'm pretty sure.
- djohnston 7y agoFor critically sensitive defense contracts? I would hope not.
- saagarjha 7y agoTo be clear, you're saying that we should discriminate against naturalized citizens, which is directly opposed to the Civil Rights Act of 1964?
- EpicEng 7y agoNot the OP, but I would say that yes, sometimes the risk is just too high. There's no inherent right to be granted a security clearance. To your point though, I'm not sure how a blanket ban of e.g. naturalized citizens from country X jives with anti-discrimination law. If I had a better internet connection at the moment I'd look into it. iirc, I believe there is a national security exception, and there are obviously others. As a man, go ahead and try to apply for a position as a stripper at a male oriented club, or as a waiter at Hooters. The Christian Coalition of <whatever> isn't required to hire atheists.
- shadowgovt 7y agoIn general yes, though there are some significant carve-outs for projects of military sensitivity. But the legal tension between antidiscrimination and mandatory state-security-derived discrimination is there.
- saagarjha 7y agoSource? I do not see any exemptions offered in the Civil Rights Act. If you're a citizen, I don't see how anyone can legally discriminate against you.
- NovemberWhiskey 7y agoSection 703(g) See: https://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/national_security_exemption.html https://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/national_security_exemption...
- shadowgovt 7y agoITAR law. The company can't discriminate in hiring for reasons of national origin alone, but a US citizen doesn't automatically stop being a citizen of another country, and ITAR prohibits letting foreign citizens touch some sensitive missile tech secrets. ... and then an employer can refrain from hiring someone because ITAR prevents them from doing the relevant job.
- openasocket 7y agoAccording to the article, this person is a dual citizen. You generally won't be granted a security clearance in the US unless you renounce your citizenship in the other country (generally, there are exceptions).
- z2 7y agoAccording to Chinese nationality law, dual citizenship is impossible for people who naturalize under another country. As a matter of law to the Chinese government, they would lose their Chinese citizenship automatically, to be enforced any time the issue comes up, such as for passport renewal or getting visas to visit under a foreign passport.
- openasocket 7y agoHis lawyer said he has Chinese citizenship > “The government’s argument that Mr. Zhang poses a flight risk because he is a Chinese citizen is insufficient to warrant GPS monitoring,” Olmos said in a filing EDIT: wrong person, confused Zhang and Chen. Zhang is a Chinese citizen, Chen is the one accused of stealing classified material
- sillysaurusx 7y agoIt's the other way around. For example, Elon once mentioned that since SpaceX is basically working on the same tech as missile systems, there are lots of restrictions on who SpaceX is allowed to hire. One of those restrictions involved country of origin, but I can't remember the details.
- freehunter 7y agoI worked on a government project once and they had the requirement that anyone working on the project had to be an American citizen. You could be naturalized, but you had to be a citizen. And this was a pretty unimportant project for a state government.
- kingkawn 7y agoOften that has more to do with not wanting bad press about hiring foreigners with tax money than a security thing
- IAmEveryone 7y agoShow me one article criticising a US government for employing a foreigner with your line of nationalistic reasoning and I'll belief you. It sometimes happens with procurement ("buy American"), or for security concerns as in the linked article. But not for employment. Heck, even Trump employed dozens of Ukrainian/Greece/British people as we've learnt.
- kingkawn 7y agoI wasn’t talking about the private sector. I was talking about government work contracts, like the state work the parent comment was referring to. My family members work in politics. These kinds of things are considered when making all decisions because they don’t want to attract any negative press or give potential narratives to future opponents. That’s how politics works from the inside, at least for Democrats in America. Everyone on here so prickly lately
- 7y ago
- GauntletWizard 7y agoIt's amazing how many people are misinformed here, because this guy is right. It's illegal to discriminate on country of origin, full stop[1]. It's illegal to discriminate on citizenship, unless it's mandatory. If someone is authorized to work in the US, you cannot take their country of origin into account[2]. If they require sponsorship, you are not required to provide it. For the small class of jobs that require citizenship, it is illegal to discriminate on naturalization status.[3] [1]https://www.uscis.gov/i-9-central/1123-national-origin-discrimination https://www.uscis.gov/i-9-central/1123-national-origin-discr... [2]https://www.uscis.gov/i-9-central/1122-citizenship-status-discrimination https://www.uscis.gov/i-9-central/1122-citizenship-status-di... [3]https://www.uscis.gov/i-9-central/employee-rights-discrimination/employee-rights https://www.uscis.gov/i-9-central/employee-rights-discrimina...
- nitwit005 7y agoThey effectively restrict it by considering ties to certain countries to be a risk.
- dsprt4cultre 7y agoUncomfortable truth.
- ptero 7y agoIANAL, but I think the US presidency is the only job that requires one to be a natural born US citizen. For any other job, you may need to be a citizen (e.g., to hold a clearance), but basing eligibility on the country of birth is likely illegal.
- tptacek 7y agoJizhong Chen is an American citizen.
- account73466 7y agoDo you think it will prevent people here from being racist? Edit: it will not, I am not Chinese btw
- remarkEon 7y agoIt’s certainly not stopping people from being incredibly naive.
- account73466 7y agotell them to hate something and they will run their shallow neural networks in a highly predictable manner
- djohnston 7y agoI was careful to say mainland born, not Chinese, not Han, not anything with genetic distinction. If a bunch of Chinese born white people wanted security clearance for US defense projects I would raise the same concern. Granted, China's speedy lunge towards ethnostate makes that occurence less likely.
- tptacek 7y agoI do not understand the hair that you are trying to split here. Why not just go all the way to genetics? How many generations away from mainland-born do you think you'd need to be before you were free of malign Chinese influence?
- openasocket 7y agoAnd a Chinese citizen, according to the article. > “The government’s argument that Mr. Zhang poses a flight risk because he is a Chinese citizen is insufficient to warrant GPS monitoring,” Olmos said in a filing I'm not sure how he got a security clearance, or if he was able to get one at all EDIT: my mistake, Zhang is the one accused of stealing confidential information from Apple alone, not from Raytheon