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Unfortunately, not a surprise at all. Recall that Clarke was one of the guys who OKed the return of the bin Laden family on 9/11 [edit: 1]. Clarke had deep conn

Unfortunately, not a surprise at all. Recall that Clarke was one of the guys who OKed the return of the bin Laden family on 9/11 [edit: 1]. Clarke had deep connections to royals and rich elites like the bin Ladens See how they targeted Qatari individuals including Al Thani himself. They say the incentive was the fight against Al Qaeda. But I am skeptical. This is about the rivalry between the Qatari and other Khaleeji royals (recall that Qatar was kicked out of GCC recently for aligning with rival ideologies like Muslim Brotherhood). Also interesting to note is that until very recently, America’s Mid East command was in Qatar; so America was playing both sides of that conflict (as usual). I am, of course, assuming that Good Harbor / DREAD have deep federal ties. Not sure about DarkMatter — that seems Emirati. ———- Edits: [1] the commenter below corrected me. It was on 13th of September. But my understanding is that there was still an exception made for the Saudis (see the private aircraft ban extending beyond the time when Saudis were being shuttled around)

strictnein 7y ago
That Bin Laden family thing is false by the way: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/flights-of-fancy/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/flights-of-fancy/ They left the country shortly after 9/11 for the simple reason that they thought they'd be killed if people realized who they were. Most were just kids in high school and college.
- tptacek 7y ago
  Also: why wouldn't you OK the return of the Bin Laden family to Saudi Arabia? Al Qaeda wasn't a family business. UBL was one of like 40 siblings.
  - vowelless 7y ago
    That’s a fair point. And no one should punish family members for what someone in their family did. And it is entirely possible that they were questioned on the few days that they did remain in the US. So why was Clark even needed to “approve” these flights, one might wonder. I was just trying to say that Clark has been connected with rich Gulf monarchs and elites for a long time.
  - GhettoMaestro 7y ago
    > [...] why wouldn't you OK the return of the Bin Laden family to Saudi Arabia, even if you had to? [...] I can think of one reason: 3000 people who got roasted alive or crushed to death on a Tuesday morning in September 2001. If you really think that event does not have implications beyond what you personally feel is right..... lol, ok chief. I would have had no moral qualms holding that family for years if necessary to enact the changes necessary within Saudi Arabia. This is a war setting, not a judicial setting.
  - Pigo 7y ago
    This is what I'd heard about this situation, many times. They had never even met. I actually thought it showed integrity to not lump him in with what appeared to be close family.
- wnoise 7y ago
  From your link: > Second, we found no evidence of political intervention. We found no evidence that anyone at the White House above the level of [National Security Council official] Richard Clarke participated in a decision on the departure of Saudi nationals … The President and Vice President told us they were not aware of the issue at all until it surfaced much later in the media. None of the officials we interviewed recalled any intervention or direction on this matter from any political appointee. If "no one above the level of Clarke" participated in the decision, it's entirely possible that Clarke did, which is what the parent said.
  - mzs 7y ago
    Participated in what? After flights were grounded no Saudis were in the air leaving the US until September 14th. We have known this for more than 15 years now. It is extremely disappointing to me that this old disinformation is currently the top thread under this submission.
  - strictnein 7y ago
    No the parent said Clarke got them out on 9/11. That is false. They left after other commercial flights were up and running so why would they need help leaving the country? > "None of the officials we interviewed recalled any intervention or direction on this matter from any political appointee." Clarke was a political appointee.
    - vowelless 7y ago
      But were there not private planes that also shuttled some saudis across the US? And this I believe was before the ban was lifted for private planes. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2003/10/saving-the-saudis-200310 https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2003/10/saving-the-saudis-20... “”” Commercial flights had slowly begun to resume, but at 10:57 A.M. the F.A.A. had issued another notice to airmen, a reminder that private aviation was still prohibited. Three private planes violated the ban that day, and in each case a pair of jet fighters quickly forced the aircraft down. As far as private planes were concerned, America was still grounded. “I was told it would take White House approval,” says Grossi. Then one of the pilots arrived. “Here’s your plane,” he told Grossi. “Whenever you’re ready to go.” “”” It was this, as far as I understand it, that requires Clark’s approval.
godelmachine 7y ago
Might I ask what is DREAD? Sounds very much like SPECTRE[1]. I hope DREAD has a cool acronym [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPECTRE https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPECTRE Edit 1:- Got it. Development Research Exploitation and Analysis Department Edit 2:- Wouid had been sorely disappointed to know it was this - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAD_(risk_assessment_model) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAD_(risk_assessment_model...
- blotter_paper 7y ago
  Development Research Exploitation and Analysis Department
  - galangalalgol 7y ago
    Any resources to read about this? All my searches are coming up blank.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - blotter_paper 7y ago
      I just got the acronym from the linked article, your guess is as good as mine. Seems like recent news about a secret program, I wouldn't expect to find much.
BeetleB 7y ago
> recall that Qatar was kicked out of GCC recently for aligning with rival ideologies like Muslim Brotherhood This is a very narrow view of what happened. It has more to do with the worry of Qatar's growing influence and independence in the region, as well as their close ties with Iran and Turkey. And the success of Al-Jazeera. I mean, just take a look at the demands made of Qatar: - Closing Al-Jazeera and its affiliate stations. - Closing other news outlets that Qatar funds, directly and indirectly, including Arabi21, Rassd, Al-Araby Al-Jadeed and Middle East Eye. - Closing the Turkish military base in Qatar, and terminate the Turkish military presence and any joint military cooperation with Turkey inside Qatar. - Reducing diplomatic relations with Iran. Only trade and commerce with Iran that complies with US and international sanctions will be permitted.[228] - Expelling any members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) and cutting off military and intelligence cooperation with Iran.[229] - "Qatar must announce it is severing ties with terrorist, ideological and sectarian organizations including the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, and Jabhat Fateh al Sham, formerly al Qaeda's branch in Syria" according to one Arab official. - Surrendering all designated terrorists in Qatar, and stopping all means of funding for individuals, groups or organisations that have been designated as terrorists. - Ending interference in the four countries' domestic and foreign affairs and having contact with their political oppositions. - Stopping granting citizenship to wanted nationals from Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt and Bahrain. - Revoking Qatari citizenship for existing nationals where such citizenship violates those countries' laws.[228] - The payment of reparations for years of alleged wrongs. - Monitoring for 10 years.[226] - Aligning itself with the other Gulf and Arab countries militarily, politically, socially and economically, as well as on economic matters, in line with an agreement reached with Saudi Arabia in 2014.[228] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_diplomatic_crisis#Demands_on_Qatar_and_responses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_diplomatic_crisis#Demand...
- Cyph0n 7y ago
  You are spot on with the true reasons about the blockade of Qatar. I also heard that the blockading countries offered to end the blockade if Qatar transferred the 2022 World Cup hosting rights to them, though I'm not sure if that's even possible. Regarding the demands on Qatar with respect to terrorist organizations: 1) The list includes organizations that are only designated as terrorist organizations by a minority of countries. 2) Qatar has regularly organized meetings between US government officials and terrorist organizations like the Taliban.

strictnein 7y ago

That Bin Laden family thing is false by the way: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/flights-of-fancy/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/flights-of-fancy/ They left the country shortly after 9/11 for the simple reason that they thought they'd be killed if people realized who they were. Most were just kids in high school and college.

tptacek 7y ago
Also: why wouldn't you OK the return of the Bin Laden family to Saudi Arabia? Al Qaeda wasn't a family business. UBL was one of like 40 siblings.
- vowelless 7y ago
  That’s a fair point. And no one should punish family members for what someone in their family did. And it is entirely possible that they were questioned on the few days that they did remain in the US. So why was Clark even needed to “approve” these flights, one might wonder. I was just trying to say that Clark has been connected with rich Gulf monarchs and elites for a long time.
- GhettoMaestro 7y ago
  > [...] why wouldn't you OK the return of the Bin Laden family to Saudi Arabia, even if you had to? [...] I can think of one reason: 3000 people who got roasted alive or crushed to death on a Tuesday morning in September 2001. If you really think that event does not have implications beyond what you personally feel is right..... lol, ok chief. I would have had no moral qualms holding that family for years if necessary to enact the changes necessary within Saudi Arabia. This is a war setting, not a judicial setting.
- Pigo 7y ago
  This is what I'd heard about this situation, many times. They had never even met. I actually thought it showed integrity to not lump him in with what appeared to be close family.
wnoise 7y ago
From your link: > Second, we found no evidence of political intervention. We found no evidence that anyone at the White House above the level of [National Security Council official] Richard Clarke participated in a decision on the departure of Saudi nationals … The President and Vice President told us they were not aware of the issue at all until it surfaced much later in the media. None of the officials we interviewed recalled any intervention or direction on this matter from any political appointee. If "no one above the level of Clarke" participated in the decision, it's entirely possible that Clarke did, which is what the parent said.
- mzs 7y ago
  Participated in what? After flights were grounded no Saudis were in the air leaving the US until September 14th. We have known this for more than 15 years now. It is extremely disappointing to me that this old disinformation is currently the top thread under this submission.
- strictnein 7y ago
  No the parent said Clarke got them out on 9/11. That is false. They left after other commercial flights were up and running so why would they need help leaving the country? > "None of the officials we interviewed recalled any intervention or direction on this matter from any political appointee." Clarke was a political appointee.
  - vowelless 7y ago
    But were there not private planes that also shuttled some saudis across the US? And this I believe was before the ban was lifted for private planes. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2003/10/saving-the-saudis-200310 https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2003/10/saving-the-saudis-20... “”” Commercial flights had slowly begun to resume, but at 10:57 A.M. the F.A.A. had issued another notice to airmen, a reminder that private aviation was still prohibited. Three private planes violated the ban that day, and in each case a pair of jet fighters quickly forced the aircraft down. As far as private planes were concerned, America was still grounded. “I was told it would take White House approval,” says Grossi. Then one of the pilots arrived. “Here’s your plane,” he told Grossi. “Whenever you’re ready to go.” “”” It was this, as far as I understand it, that requires Clark’s approval.

godelmachine 7y ago

Might I ask what is DREAD? Sounds very much like SPECTRE[1]. I hope DREAD has a cool acronym [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPECTRE https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPECTRE Edit 1:- Got it. Development Research Exploitation and Analysis Department Edit 2:- Wouid had been sorely disappointed to know it was this - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAD_(risk_assessment_model) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAD_(risk_assessment_model...

blotter_paper 7y ago
Development Research Exploitation and Analysis Department
- galangalalgol 7y ago
  Any resources to read about this? All my searches are coming up blank.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - blotter_paper 7y ago
    I just got the acronym from the linked article, your guess is as good as mine. Seems like recent news about a secret program, I wouldn't expect to find much.

BeetleB 7y ago

> recall that Qatar was kicked out of GCC recently for aligning with rival ideologies like Muslim Brotherhood This is a very narrow view of what happened. It has more to do with the worry of Qatar's growing influence and independence in the region, as well as their close ties with Iran and Turkey. And the success of Al-Jazeera. I mean, just take a look at the demands made of Qatar: - Closing Al-Jazeera and its affiliate stations. - Closing other news outlets that Qatar funds, directly and indirectly, including Arabi21, Rassd, Al-Araby Al-Jadeed and Middle East Eye. - Closing the Turkish military base in Qatar, and terminate the Turkish military presence and any joint military cooperation with Turkey inside Qatar. - Reducing diplomatic relations with Iran. Only trade and commerce with Iran that complies with US and international sanctions will be permitted.[228] - Expelling any members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) and cutting off military and intelligence cooperation with Iran.[229] - "Qatar must announce it is severing ties with terrorist, ideological and sectarian organizations including the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, and Jabhat Fateh al Sham, formerly al Qaeda's branch in Syria" according to one Arab official. - Surrendering all designated terrorists in Qatar, and stopping all means of funding for individuals, groups or organisations that have been designated as terrorists. - Ending interference in the four countries' domestic and foreign affairs and having contact with their political oppositions. - Stopping granting citizenship to wanted nationals from Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt and Bahrain. - Revoking Qatari citizenship for existing nationals where such citizenship violates those countries' laws.[228] - The payment of reparations for years of alleged wrongs. - Monitoring for 10 years.[226] - Aligning itself with the other Gulf and Arab countries militarily, politically, socially and economically, as well as on economic matters, in line with an agreement reached with Saudi Arabia in 2014.[228] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_diplomatic_crisis#Demands_on_Qatar_and_responses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_diplomatic_crisis#Demand...

Cyph0n 7y ago
You are spot on with the true reasons about the blockade of Qatar. I also heard that the blockading countries offered to end the blockade if Qatar transferred the 2022 World Cup hosting rights to them, though I'm not sure if that's even possible. Regarding the demands on Qatar with respect to terrorist organizations: 1) The list includes organizations that are only designated as terrorist organizations by a minority of countries. 2) Qatar has regularly organized meetings between US government officials and terrorist organizations like the Taliban.