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The most extraodinary claim is here: > To further intimidate any current Apple employee who might dare consider leaving Apple, Apple’s complaint shows that it

The most extraodinary claim is here: > To further intimidate any current Apple employee who might dare consider leaving Apple, Apple’s complaint shows that it is monitoring and examining its employees’ phone records and text messages, in a stunning and disquieting invasion of privacy.

pgrote 7y ago
Could it have been as simple as an Apple employee sharing the text messages they received?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- morganw 7y ago
  That was my first thought- Williams' Notice of Demurrer claims they were intercepted, but the complaint just quotes some texts without saying how they were obtained. I hope for transparency in this matter.
ducadveritatem 7y ago
This just seems like them attempting to be sensationalist. Anyone who has a company device managed with MDM that doesn't think their employer can monitor everything that happens on that device should go back and reread the terms they accepted when they got the device.
- ecf 7y ago
  MDMs can, but no employer in their right mind ever should actually take the steps to enable sms tracking. I used to work in IT, and have rolled out MDM programs for startups before. What needs to happen is a signed contract between the employer and the employee stating exactly what the current capabilities of the MDM are, and under what scenarios the employer can change those capabilities. This needs to be separate from their employment agreement.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Apple has interestingly created a better MDM that doesn't give them blanket access to devices in iOS 13, but to my knowledge they haven't rolled it out internally…
K0SM0S 7y ago
The irony might seem spectacular — between marketing and HR at Apple, essentially, how execs choose to treat others based on whether they're customers or employees. However, it's (morally questionable but) common practice (and actually CYA legally-motivated more often than not) in all corporations and even smaller companies. We might naively expect Apple to behave differently in this instance because of their marketing stance, their privacy-minded public/commercial image. Until you realize it's just that: posture, image, product. The point is business-minded designs, not morally-driven values, the alignment of both being serendipitous, circumstancial. The "why" is customer seduction, not social politics, let alone HR policy (and to be really fair, they never communicated externally on that, in their usual secretive behavior). TL;DR: It's great when you sell a product that supports values you agree with, but let's not confuse sales/marketing/PR with management/legal/HR. A corporation has many heads who do not operate in the same space nor speak to the same object.

pgrote 7y ago

Could it have been as simple as an Apple employee sharing the text messages they received?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
morganw 7y ago
That was my first thought- Williams' Notice of Demurrer claims they were intercepted, but the complaint just quotes some texts without saying how they were obtained. I hope for transparency in this matter.

ducadveritatem 7y ago

This just seems like them attempting to be sensationalist. Anyone who has a company device managed with MDM that doesn't think their employer can monitor everything that happens on that device should go back and reread the terms they accepted when they got the device.

ecf 7y ago
MDMs can, but no employer in their right mind ever should actually take the steps to enable sms tracking. I used to work in IT, and have rolled out MDM programs for startups before. What needs to happen is a signed contract between the employer and the employee stating exactly what the current capabilities of the MDM are, and under what scenarios the employer can change those capabilities. This needs to be separate from their employment agreement.
saagarjha 7y ago
Apple has interestingly created a better MDM that doesn't give them blanket access to devices in iOS 13, but to my knowledge they haven't rolled it out internally…

K0SM0S 7y ago

The irony might seem spectacular — between marketing and HR at Apple, essentially, how execs choose to treat others based on whether they're customers or employees. However, it's (morally questionable but) common practice (and actually CYA legally-motivated more often than not) in all corporations and even smaller companies. We might naively expect Apple to behave differently in this instance because of their marketing stance, their privacy-minded public/commercial image. Until you realize it's just that: posture, image, product. The point is business-minded designs, not morally-driven values, the alignment of both being serendipitous, circumstancial. The "why" is customer seduction, not social politics, let alone HR policy (and to be really fair, they never communicated externally on that, in their usual secretive behavior). TL;DR: It's great when you sell a product that supports values you agree with, but let's not confuse sales/marketing/PR with management/legal/HR. A corporation has many heads who do not operate in the same space nor speak to the same object.