4 ms·

I've thought about this a bit. I don't think we'd get much public sympathy from a working conditions standpoint- generally if you're working for the right place

I've thought about this a bit. I don't think we'd get much public sympathy from a working conditions standpoint- generally if you're working for the right place you can arguably make more money than most of your non-engineer peers (look at a percentile breakdown of your annual income if you don't believe me). I think the way a union like this could succeed is by fighting Big Brother-esque projects and refusing to work on initiatives such as Project Butterfly. Sell it as "we refuse to work on technology that will objectively make you (the layman's) life worse". Once we hit a critical mass we'd have a much bigger say over what projects do and don't get built, and anyone who scabs is arguably on the wrong side of the moral coin or "enabling Big Brother/technocratic billionaires". This isn't to say that tech workers should be the ultimate moral arbiter, but having a non-financially driven check would at least help.

kevingadd 7y ago
I think I agree on the public sympathy point, but if anything I think tech workers should assume they will never have public support. Bargaining collectively is the only way that the average tech worker will be able to take steps that might make the public feel as if they can trust us to be on their side. Given what many of our employers do (collectively, as a company) it's hard to expect the average member of the public to look at that and assume tech workers are fighting the good fight.
- Frondo 7y ago
  I think it's entirely plausible for a tech worker's union to build public support around any number of popular causes, e.g. "want facebook to stop listening in on your conversations? FB Local 404 did that for you" or "Sick of Instacart stealing your shoppers' tips? So is the Instacart Developers' Guild" and so on.
macinjosh 7y ago
> "we refuse to work on technology that will objectively make you (the layman's) life worse". I could get behind this reason for unionizing.
_-o-_ 7y ago
I don't think that I'll ever have any sympathy for workers telling business what projects they are willing to work on. If you don't like the kind of work you're supposed to be doing - seek employment at different place.
- zbyte64 7y ago
  Agreed, preferably one with a union to match your preference.
mindfulgeek 7y ago
This. Developers are a very powerful party, but completely unorganized. Everything relies on software and not everyone can build it. We make things that make the world better, but we also make things that make the world a lot worse. If we could group together and have some kind of “do no harm” oath and protections around that, the world would be a better place.
dub 7y ago
As far as I can tell there's no legal protection for people who attempt to organize or strike for reasons other than working conditions. Is there any precedent to suggest that workers in the US would be able to refuse the carry out a lawful business strategy set by shareholders without risk of being fired?

kevingadd 7y ago

I think I agree on the public sympathy point, but if anything I think tech workers should assume they will never have public support. Bargaining collectively is the only way that the average tech worker will be able to take steps that might make the public feel as if they can trust us to be on their side. Given what many of our employers do (collectively, as a company) it's hard to expect the average member of the public to look at that and assume tech workers are fighting the good fight.

Frondo 7y ago
I think it's entirely plausible for a tech worker's union to build public support around any number of popular causes, e.g. "want facebook to stop listening in on your conversations? FB Local 404 did that for you" or "Sick of Instacart stealing your shoppers' tips? So is the Instacart Developers' Guild" and so on.

macinjosh 7y ago

> "we refuse to work on technology that will objectively make you (the layman's) life worse". I could get behind this reason for unionizing.

_-o-_ 7y ago

I don't think that I'll ever have any sympathy for workers telling business what projects they are willing to work on. If you don't like the kind of work you're supposed to be doing - seek employment at different place.

zbyte64 7y ago
Agreed, preferably one with a union to match your preference.

mindfulgeek 7y ago

This. Developers are a very powerful party, but completely unorganized. Everything relies on software and not everyone can build it. We make things that make the world better, but we also make things that make the world a lot worse. If we could group together and have some kind of “do no harm” oath and protections around that, the world would be a better place.

dub 7y ago

As far as I can tell there's no legal protection for people who attempt to organize or strike for reasons other than working conditions. Is there any precedent to suggest that workers in the US would be able to refuse the carry out a lawful business strategy set by shareholders without risk of being fired?