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> This could be the worst idea ever. Have cameras pointed at every flyer for the duration of the flight, for the incredibly minor benefit of stopping your movie

> This could be the worst idea ever. Have cameras pointed at every flyer for the duration of the flight, for the incredibly minor benefit of stopping your movie This seems to be uniform across all surveillance technology. The purported convenience is so laughably minor that it's almost a parody. Like Alexa - people are willing to have a Big Brother-esque speaker inside their homes for the convenience of playing some music? Is that all it takes?

toxicFork 7y ago
Pretty much.
chki 7y ago
To be fair, everybody who has Alexa already has a phone constantly with them everywhere. So it's just one extra microphone, not something completely different.
- kumarvvr 7y ago
  However, a smartphone is more transparent, relatively, over what it does. Not so much with Alexa.
  - resfirestar 7y ago
    Not sure what specifically you mean. Most smartphones today come with one of the assistants (Google, Siri, Alexa, or Bixby) turned on by default.
    - pnutjam 7y ago
      Not sure if these are just uneducated posts or astro-turfing...
      - resfirestar 7y ago
        Astro-turfing for what? I guess this falls into the "uneducated" category. From my apparently uneducated perspective, phones need to be a concern if you're worried about your voice and activities being recorded. Most users have no idea that, for example, Google Assistant is always listening on Pixel.
        Retric 7y ago
        Siri is not enabled by default, they use a different approach to get users to opt in. Step 8: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202033 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202033 has a much bigger button to enable Siri, but users are given a choice and skipping Siri takes less time so it’s easier if you’re not going to use it.
        pnutjam 7y ago
        Completely deactivate it If you choose to disable Google Assistant completely, follow these steps: Open the Google app and select Menu (the three bars) go to Settings Google Assistant section click Settings > Phone and disable the Assistant option I have a custom domain and disabled it for my family: Switch off Google Assistant (for entire custom domain) Click Search and Assistant. Tip: Scroll to see all services. ... Control who uses Search and Assistant in your organization At the left, select the organizational unit. Select On or Off. To keep the service turned on or off even when the service is turned on or off for the parent organizational unit, click Override.
    - smichel17 7y ago
      ..which you can turn off or disable..
      - resfirestar 7y ago
        What fraction of iPhone users do you think have turned off Siri? Based on my circle, it's zero. Android seems a bit more complicated because registration for Samsung or Amazon might be decoupled from device setup, but I'd imagine those are mostly turned on. So most people do have an always or nearly always on microphone in their pocket as the post higher up was trying to point out.
        ratww 7y ago
        Anecdata, but most of my friends that have iPhones has Siri enabled indeed, but the minority that is aware of the "Hey Siri" feature (the only thing that needs an always-on mic) has not enabled it. Most of them find it creepy.
      - tracer4201 7y ago
        Almost none of my family members understand the implications of the voice assistant let alone know how to turn it off. You’re a techy type and are thinking my uncles or grandparents operate at your level.
      - limomium 7y ago
        Can you? No matter how many damn Google Assistant settings I disable in how many fractal menus, it STILL "helpfully" pops up if I say out loud "ok google"! Like, "heyy I noticed you're trying to talk to me though I'm disabled, would you like to enable me?" Stop spying on me you piece of malware.
        gnulynnux 7y ago
        What kind of Android do you have? Are you sure you went through all the settings? And, still, I can install LineageOS or other privacy-respecting systems on my phone. We don't have any custom firmware for an Echo or Alexa yet (to the best of my knowledge.)
  - sho_hn 7y ago
    A smartphone is more transparent than a device explicitly designed and advertised to record audio in entire rooms? Or did you mean the smartphones signal more system status? In my experience a lot of people have privacy concerns over the speakers, and underestimate the smartphone.
    - kumarvvr 7y ago
      I meant that security provisions for smartphones are way better than for Alexa type devices. People do underestimate the smartphone, but I feel the problem with smart speakers is even more pronounced. I mean, voice is the primary interface for a smart speaker.
- mrfusion 7y ago
  Phones can’t hear very well from your pocket. Try recording something with the phone in your pocket.
- simias 7y ago
  Two wrongs don't make a right, and I make sure to disable all voice commands from my smartphone (which is admittedly useless if my device is compromised because I'd need a hardware killswitch, but it's a start). On the other hand those assistants' whole purpose is to work with voice controls, they're useless without them. It's not completely different but it's far from completely the same in my opinion.
- puranjay 7y ago
  That's the thing - smartphones are surveillance devices as well, but their utility makes them a necessity. It's possible to argue that you'd submit to the surveillance if you're getting all that you get from a smartphone. But a smart speaker just plays some music and tells you the weather. It's not nearly enough utility to be worth the privacy risks.
  - CDSlice 7y ago
    To you maybe, but not for everyone. I get lots of utility out of my Echo (alarms, music, checking the weather, controlling lights, etc.) that I'm fine with some random Amazon contractor listening to my commands to Alexa. And if you are worried about the companies lying about not recording 24/7 why do you trust them to disable the recording done by assistants on your phone?
agent008t 7y ago
The need to be observed and understood was once satisfied by God. Now we can implement the same functionality with data-mining algorithms.
- rjbwork 7y ago
  I'm 100% fine being obscured and mysterious if it means corporations and the government aren't recording every thing I do.
bamboozled 7y ago
Don’t forget safety, were often told it’s to monitor bad guys or people breaking the law. Australia is great at this, see the new “Phone use while driving cameras”, insane.
- mikepurvis 7y ago
  As a person who primarily walks and bikes to get around I am very okay with whatever measures are necessary to get phone drivers off the road.
  - mikefallen 7y ago
    We live in the safest world we have ever lived in yet it amazes me the willingness people have to give up privacy and Liberty under the guise of a marginal increase in "safety"
    - mikepurvis 7y ago
      Pedestrian and cyclist deaths in the US are at a thirty year high: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-traffic-fatalities/pedestrian-fatalities-on-u-s-roads-hit-almost-30-year-high-idUSKBN1X11E1 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-traffic-fatalities/pe... But at the end of the day it's a cultural thing— this is the same America that rejects any form of common sense gun control because liberty is more important than kids not shooting themselves in their own homes.
- donkeyd 7y ago
  After nearly 5 decades of declining traffic fatalities, the number has been increasing (at least in NL) for the past 3, with mobile use being one of the main drivers. I don't like surveillance everywhere, but I like people playing with their phones while driving even less, so I personally can't wait for those camera's to be anywhere. Also, my Tesla is filming constantly while I drive, so that's a much bigger deal.
  - turk73 7y ago
dobleboble 7y ago
Voice control of smart devices is extremely convenient. I can only imagine what a quality of life improvement it is for someone with physical disabilities.
- npongratz 7y ago
  Right, convenient for some, and I empathize with that use case. But why must we all be subjected to Big Brother's unblinking, creepy-as-fuck stare? And why must all the data enabling the convenience be ripped away from my exclusive control and sent back to some centralized store?
  - cheez 7y ago
    Think back 200,000 years when modern humans first appeared. That is less than 20,000 generations of humans where for a long time, it was kill or be killed. Think back to about a thousand years ago. That is less than 100 generations where for a long time, slavery and serfdom were common. "Big Brother" is nothing more than a tool for the apex of the pyramid of human society. This is how "they" are able to get away with molesting hundreds of children while Joe who takes a drunken piss in the park at midnight is classified a sex offender for life. So if you understand from _that_ perspective, it makes perfect sense. However, in contrast to every other time before, today the commoner "feels" like they are free. This changes the way they think and speak. The commoners don't feel inferior to the apex of humanity's pyramid. I expect if we get too far out of line, we'll be reminded.
  - Konnstann 7y ago
    Don't buy Alexa? I agree with you with regards to facial recognition, but expanding your views to optional smart home tech seems fairly vindictive.
    - 0xffff2 7y ago
      Or have any friends that want to buy one. I have one friend who's pretty in to home automation. Fortunately he doesn't host get togethers very often, but I've seriously considered declining invitations before because I don't want to be in a house with all that crap in it.
technofiend 7y ago
>Like Alexa - people are willing to have a Big Brother-esque speaker inside their homes for the convenience of playing some music? Is that all it takes? Here's my workaround: my smart speaker is tied to the lightswitch. It's only on when I'm in that room and if Google can somehow make use of the fact I stream a podcast or the local NPR station while bathing and shaving more power to them.
sean-duffy 7y ago
Most people already carry a Big Brother-esque device with a camera and microphone in their pockets everywhere they go.
- 0xffff2 7y ago
  You can completely disable Siri or whatever your device's equivalent is. The entire purpose of Alexa is to be listening all the time. They're not equivalent.
  - Pxtl 7y ago
    Can you prove that you've disabled it? That it's not listening all the time and logging interesting sounds? I don't see a huge difference between a speaker that's designed to have an always-on mic listening for a code-word and we're just going to trust that it doesn't log anything unless it hears that codeword, and a phone that's designed to have the same, but has a software option to turn it off. Either way, we're trusting that the device isn't abusing the fact that it has a mic.
    - 0xffff2 7y ago
      No, I can't prove that it's disabled, but that doesn't matter much. There are people out there who probably could and would be more than happy to publish their results if they did. More importantly, the difference is in intent. I don't intend to carry around a device that's always listening to me. Anyone with an Alexa device is intentionally inviting Amazon to listen to every word spoken in (part of) their home.
      - reroute1 7y ago
        Right but you just mentioned siri, which is included on every iphone. People do carry that around and don't expect it to be listening.
        0xffff2 7y ago
efa 7y ago
And adding things to my shopping list!

toxicFork 7y ago

Pretty much.

chki 7y ago

To be fair, everybody who has Alexa already has a phone constantly with them everywhere. So it's just one extra microphone, not something completely different.

kumarvvr 7y ago
However, a smartphone is more transparent, relatively, over what it does. Not so much with Alexa.
- resfirestar 7y ago
  Not sure what specifically you mean. Most smartphones today come with one of the assistants (Google, Siri, Alexa, or Bixby) turned on by default.
  - pnutjam 7y ago
    Not sure if these are just uneducated posts or astro-turfing...
    - resfirestar 7y ago
      Astro-turfing for what? I guess this falls into the "uneducated" category. From my apparently uneducated perspective, phones need to be a concern if you're worried about your voice and activities being recorded. Most users have no idea that, for example, Google Assistant is always listening on Pixel.
      - Retric 7y ago
        Siri is not enabled by default, they use a different approach to get users to opt in. Step 8: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202033 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202033 has a much bigger button to enable Siri, but users are given a choice and skipping Siri takes less time so it’s easier if you’re not going to use it.
      - pnutjam 7y ago
        Completely deactivate it If you choose to disable Google Assistant completely, follow these steps: Open the Google app and select Menu (the three bars) go to Settings Google Assistant section click Settings > Phone and disable the Assistant option I have a custom domain and disabled it for my family: Switch off Google Assistant (for entire custom domain) Click Search and Assistant. Tip: Scroll to see all services. ... Control who uses Search and Assistant in your organization At the left, select the organizational unit. Select On or Off. To keep the service turned on or off even when the service is turned on or off for the parent organizational unit, click Override.
  - smichel17 7y ago
    ..which you can turn off or disable..
    - resfirestar 7y ago
      What fraction of iPhone users do you think have turned off Siri? Based on my circle, it's zero. Android seems a bit more complicated because registration for Samsung or Amazon might be decoupled from device setup, but I'd imagine those are mostly turned on. So most people do have an always or nearly always on microphone in their pocket as the post higher up was trying to point out.
      - ratww 7y ago
        Anecdata, but most of my friends that have iPhones has Siri enabled indeed, but the minority that is aware of the "Hey Siri" feature (the only thing that needs an always-on mic) has not enabled it. Most of them find it creepy.
    - tracer4201 7y ago
      Almost none of my family members understand the implications of the voice assistant let alone know how to turn it off. You’re a techy type and are thinking my uncles or grandparents operate at your level.
    - limomium 7y ago
      Can you? No matter how many damn Google Assistant settings I disable in how many fractal menus, it STILL "helpfully" pops up if I say out loud "ok google"! Like, "heyy I noticed you're trying to talk to me though I'm disabled, would you like to enable me?" Stop spying on me you piece of malware.
      - gnulynnux 7y ago
        What kind of Android do you have? Are you sure you went through all the settings? And, still, I can install LineageOS or other privacy-respecting systems on my phone. We don't have any custom firmware for an Echo or Alexa yet (to the best of my knowledge.)
- sho_hn 7y ago
  A smartphone is more transparent than a device explicitly designed and advertised to record audio in entire rooms? Or did you mean the smartphones signal more system status? In my experience a lot of people have privacy concerns over the speakers, and underestimate the smartphone.
  - kumarvvr 7y ago
    I meant that security provisions for smartphones are way better than for Alexa type devices. People do underestimate the smartphone, but I feel the problem with smart speakers is even more pronounced. I mean, voice is the primary interface for a smart speaker.
mrfusion 7y ago
Phones can’t hear very well from your pocket. Try recording something with the phone in your pocket.
simias 7y ago
Two wrongs don't make a right, and I make sure to disable all voice commands from my smartphone (which is admittedly useless if my device is compromised because I'd need a hardware killswitch, but it's a start). On the other hand those assistants' whole purpose is to work with voice controls, they're useless without them. It's not completely different but it's far from completely the same in my opinion.
puranjay 7y ago
That's the thing - smartphones are surveillance devices as well, but their utility makes them a necessity. It's possible to argue that you'd submit to the surveillance if you're getting all that you get from a smartphone. But a smart speaker just plays some music and tells you the weather. It's not nearly enough utility to be worth the privacy risks.
- CDSlice 7y ago
  To you maybe, but not for everyone. I get lots of utility out of my Echo (alarms, music, checking the weather, controlling lights, etc.) that I'm fine with some random Amazon contractor listening to my commands to Alexa. And if you are worried about the companies lying about not recording 24/7 why do you trust them to disable the recording done by assistants on your phone?

agent008t 7y ago

The need to be observed and understood was once satisfied by God. Now we can implement the same functionality with data-mining algorithms.

rjbwork 7y ago
I'm 100% fine being obscured and mysterious if it means corporations and the government aren't recording every thing I do.

bamboozled 7y ago

Don’t forget safety, were often told it’s to monitor bad guys or people breaking the law. Australia is great at this, see the new “Phone use while driving cameras”, insane.

mikepurvis 7y ago
As a person who primarily walks and bikes to get around I am very okay with whatever measures are necessary to get phone drivers off the road.
- mikefallen 7y ago
  We live in the safest world we have ever lived in yet it amazes me the willingness people have to give up privacy and Liberty under the guise of a marginal increase in "safety"
  - mikepurvis 7y ago
    Pedestrian and cyclist deaths in the US are at a thirty year high: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-traffic-fatalities/pedestrian-fatalities-on-u-s-roads-hit-almost-30-year-high-idUSKBN1X11E1 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-traffic-fatalities/pe... But at the end of the day it's a cultural thing— this is the same America that rejects any form of common sense gun control because liberty is more important than kids not shooting themselves in their own homes.
donkeyd 7y ago
After nearly 5 decades of declining traffic fatalities, the number has been increasing (at least in NL) for the past 3, with mobile use being one of the main drivers. I don't like surveillance everywhere, but I like people playing with their phones while driving even less, so I personally can't wait for those camera's to be anywhere. Also, my Tesla is filming constantly while I drive, so that's a much bigger deal.
- turk73 7y ago

dobleboble 7y ago

Voice control of smart devices is extremely convenient. I can only imagine what a quality of life improvement it is for someone with physical disabilities.

npongratz 7y ago
Right, convenient for some, and I empathize with that use case. But why must we all be subjected to Big Brother's unblinking, creepy-as-fuck stare? And why must all the data enabling the convenience be ripped away from my exclusive control and sent back to some centralized store?
- cheez 7y ago
  Think back 200,000 years when modern humans first appeared. That is less than 20,000 generations of humans where for a long time, it was kill or be killed. Think back to about a thousand years ago. That is less than 100 generations where for a long time, slavery and serfdom were common. "Big Brother" is nothing more than a tool for the apex of the pyramid of human society. This is how "they" are able to get away with molesting hundreds of children while Joe who takes a drunken piss in the park at midnight is classified a sex offender for life. So if you understand from _that_ perspective, it makes perfect sense. However, in contrast to every other time before, today the commoner "feels" like they are free. This changes the way they think and speak. The commoners don't feel inferior to the apex of humanity's pyramid. I expect if we get too far out of line, we'll be reminded.
- Konnstann 7y ago
  Don't buy Alexa? I agree with you with regards to facial recognition, but expanding your views to optional smart home tech seems fairly vindictive.
  - 0xffff2 7y ago
    Or have any friends that want to buy one. I have one friend who's pretty in to home automation. Fortunately he doesn't host get togethers very often, but I've seriously considered declining invitations before because I don't want to be in a house with all that crap in it.

technofiend 7y ago

>Like Alexa - people are willing to have a Big Brother-esque speaker inside their homes for the convenience of playing some music? Is that all it takes? Here's my workaround: my smart speaker is tied to the lightswitch. It's only on when I'm in that room and if Google can somehow make use of the fact I stream a podcast or the local NPR station while bathing and shaving more power to them.

sean-duffy 7y ago

Most people already carry a Big Brother-esque device with a camera and microphone in their pockets everywhere they go.

0xffff2 7y ago
You can completely disable Siri or whatever your device's equivalent is. The entire purpose of Alexa is to be listening all the time. They're not equivalent.
- Pxtl 7y ago
  Can you prove that you've disabled it? That it's not listening all the time and logging interesting sounds? I don't see a huge difference between a speaker that's designed to have an always-on mic listening for a code-word and we're just going to trust that it doesn't log anything unless it hears that codeword, and a phone that's designed to have the same, but has a software option to turn it off. Either way, we're trusting that the device isn't abusing the fact that it has a mic.
  - 0xffff2 7y ago
    No, I can't prove that it's disabled, but that doesn't matter much. There are people out there who probably could and would be more than happy to publish their results if they did. More importantly, the difference is in intent. I don't intend to carry around a device that's always listening to me. Anyone with an Alexa device is intentionally inviting Amazon to listen to every word spoken in (part of) their home.
    - reroute1 7y ago
      Right but you just mentioned siri, which is included on every iphone. People do carry that around and don't expect it to be listening.
      - 0xffff2 7y ago

efa 7y ago

And adding things to my shopping list!