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Or maybe give people time to live before they decide to participate in "the economy". Not everything is jobs. Actually I would argue that hiring is, or should b

Or maybe give people time to live before they decide to participate in "the economy". Not everything is jobs. Actually I would argue that hiring is, or should be soon, obsolete because of a gradual change on mindset that clarifies what jobs really are, schemes. There's no reason to dedicate most of your waking life working on selling products where the end product is just maintaining frivolous life styles. And if having to pay for basic things like a roof and food is the factor here, then there are bigger issues at the root level.

faraday2211 7y ago
To a certain extent i agree with your statement. But if young people dont’ explore and develop skills early then they will lose later in life. Instead of “living” they should probably explore wether art or tech or construction or whatever is more suitable for them personally. Then once they have a career they cam travel and live as they have the skills to support that life. If you look at instagram then you will see how many live their lives and have no skill then they complain about why they camt pay bills.
- 52-6F-62 7y ago
  There are few guarantees the skills you develop today will mean much to the market by the time you can afford to do any living. Ten years ago learning to drive a truck meant a long-term stable career, even if it's not the most glamourous. Today, we're discussing the short-term viability of automating that shipping system. Five years ago in Alberta, getting into a trade that was in demand in the oil industry meant a lifetime career with a pretty great salary. Today, the industry is on shaky footing and many will have to retrain. In software, while it might not be near or certain, there are plenty of discussions about automating most projects since so many of them conform to common patterns and publicly accessible, free code already existing. We don't know any better how large much of the software development industry will be in ten years time. Many of those skills might be as obsolete as some IG "celebrity". I think OP is at least correct in that you sort of have to weigh these things yourself. Sometimes that life experience in other facets will inform your future more than picking up a skill that is just enough to put you into someone else's employ. It's pretty difficult to know. You can apply any kind of probability measure you want, but the gaps in between any sound reason are just attempting to know the future before it happens.
  - faraday2211 7y ago
    That is partially correct. Developing the skill to drive a truck at an early age gives you the skills to operate vehicles at a later stage, and that is transferrable knowledge. Not to mention work place interaction skills, and time management. In terms of software, indeed repetitive tasks can be automated, but 100% of development never will be.
bluGill 7y ago
How does the labor to build the basic things like a roof happen? How does the labor to grow food and get it to you happen? Those are called jobs, and like it or not somebody has to do them. Society has been getting more efficient at them, but even still some amount of human labor is required! People have jobs because they need things that can only be got via human labor. This is not a bigger issue at a root level, it is a basic fact that you are trying to deny.
- keiferski 7y ago
  The overwhelming majority of jobs in the modern economy have nothing to do with basic needs. Most of them simply exist to feed the consumerist/financial complex.
  - beckingz 7y ago
    Do not overly disregard material conditions.
  - UserIsUnused 7y ago
    That's a different issue. But consumerism is needed to provide something of value back to those that gave their time to get you food and a roof.
    - keiferski 7y ago
      Food and roofs didn't exist prior to 20th-century marketing and consumer-targeting psychology?
      - UserIsUnused 7y ago
        before 20th century marketing woman would spend the whole day preparing food. And you couldn't really have a decent way of owning a home.
  - bluGill 7y ago
    The overwhelming majority of people want more than the basics. They don't just want a roof over their head, they want a nice roof - one they can stand up under, maybe with a kitchen, running water, separate rooms for their various games... They don't want to eat just rice and beans, they want more. You are one of them: if you were not you wouldn't be reading this forum.
BurningFrog 7y ago
To me, working is just the way you participate in society and civilization. All the fantastic gifts and riches in a modern economy you enjoy were made by Someone. You need to participate in and support the system by also making things for others. > Not everything is jobs Of course not. But it's something, and it's important!
theflyinghorse 7y ago
> And if having to pay for basic things like a roof and food is the factor here, then there are bigger issues at the root level. It is the main factor for the vast majority of people. Anectada: I cannot nor could ever afford to 'live before participating in economy' - I needed place to stay, food to eat and some extra money to not feel like a bum. It takes wealth to enjoy life.
- jmastrangelo 7y ago
  Don't understand why you're being downvoted. Surviving and thriving in the world requires lots of material goods. These goods are produced by the economy so of course you have to participate in it in order to live. A world where people don't have to participate in the economy would have no goods.

faraday2211 7y ago

To a certain extent i agree with your statement. But if young people dont’ explore and develop skills early then they will lose later in life. Instead of “living” they should probably explore wether art or tech or construction or whatever is more suitable for them personally. Then once they have a career they cam travel and live as they have the skills to support that life. If you look at instagram then you will see how many live their lives and have no skill then they complain about why they camt pay bills.

52-6F-62 7y ago
There are few guarantees the skills you develop today will mean much to the market by the time you can afford to do any living. Ten years ago learning to drive a truck meant a long-term stable career, even if it's not the most glamourous. Today, we're discussing the short-term viability of automating that shipping system. Five years ago in Alberta, getting into a trade that was in demand in the oil industry meant a lifetime career with a pretty great salary. Today, the industry is on shaky footing and many will have to retrain. In software, while it might not be near or certain, there are plenty of discussions about automating most projects since so many of them conform to common patterns and publicly accessible, free code already existing. We don't know any better how large much of the software development industry will be in ten years time. Many of those skills might be as obsolete as some IG "celebrity". I think OP is at least correct in that you sort of have to weigh these things yourself. Sometimes that life experience in other facets will inform your future more than picking up a skill that is just enough to put you into someone else's employ. It's pretty difficult to know. You can apply any kind of probability measure you want, but the gaps in between any sound reason are just attempting to know the future before it happens.
- faraday2211 7y ago
  That is partially correct. Developing the skill to drive a truck at an early age gives you the skills to operate vehicles at a later stage, and that is transferrable knowledge. Not to mention work place interaction skills, and time management. In terms of software, indeed repetitive tasks can be automated, but 100% of development never will be.

bluGill 7y ago

How does the labor to build the basic things like a roof happen? How does the labor to grow food and get it to you happen? Those are called jobs, and like it or not somebody has to do them. Society has been getting more efficient at them, but even still some amount of human labor is required! People have jobs because they need things that can only be got via human labor. This is not a bigger issue at a root level, it is a basic fact that you are trying to deny.

keiferski 7y ago
The overwhelming majority of jobs in the modern economy have nothing to do with basic needs. Most of them simply exist to feed the consumerist/financial complex.
- beckingz 7y ago
  Do not overly disregard material conditions.
- UserIsUnused 7y ago
  That's a different issue. But consumerism is needed to provide something of value back to those that gave their time to get you food and a roof.
  - keiferski 7y ago
    Food and roofs didn't exist prior to 20th-century marketing and consumer-targeting psychology?
    - UserIsUnused 7y ago
      before 20th century marketing woman would spend the whole day preparing food. And you couldn't really have a decent way of owning a home.
- bluGill 7y ago
  The overwhelming majority of people want more than the basics. They don't just want a roof over their head, they want a nice roof - one they can stand up under, maybe with a kitchen, running water, separate rooms for their various games... They don't want to eat just rice and beans, they want more. You are one of them: if you were not you wouldn't be reading this forum.

BurningFrog 7y ago

To me, working is just the way you participate in society and civilization. All the fantastic gifts and riches in a modern economy you enjoy were made by Someone. You need to participate in and support the system by also making things for others. > Not everything is jobs Of course not. But it's something, and it's important!

theflyinghorse 7y ago

> And if having to pay for basic things like a roof and food is the factor here, then there are bigger issues at the root level. It is the main factor for the vast majority of people. Anectada: I cannot nor could ever afford to 'live before participating in economy' - I needed place to stay, food to eat and some extra money to not feel like a bum. It takes wealth to enjoy life.

jmastrangelo 7y ago
Don't understand why you're being downvoted. Surviving and thriving in the world requires lots of material goods. These goods are produced by the economy so of course you have to participate in it in order to live. A world where people don't have to participate in the economy would have no goods.