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> Developers should operate the software they write. This was how things used to be in most places in the 80's and 90's - it was a disaster. Development and Pr

> Developers should operate the software they write. This was how things used to be in most places in the 80's and 90's - it was a disaster. Development and Production Support have conflicting goals, developers want to fix the bug/add the enhancement and release, production support wants to keep things going and have no downtime. Production releases and gate keepers became the solution, to mix them up again is bad. Maybe if there was an infinite pool of developers that are skilled in all the applications that are being run and all the environments they run in then this would work but even then developers aren't good at keeping things the same, it's not their nature imho. Edit: Not only that - the temptation to just pop in to production and fix the latest bug is too high, its only a little fix - what could go wrong :-) - if the developers have the keys to production then this happens. Gate keepers are good and make you test your code before its ever released.

indemnity 7y ago
There is a little thing called containerisation, immutable infrastructure and infrastructure as code that has happened. This stuff is table stakes for modern applications. Who still manually patches applications in production? Who deploys artifacts that didn’t come from a build/test pipeline? Who still SSH’s into a server and hacks a config file instead of applying the configuration change with a traceable commit / PR process? Sysadmins who want to return the the glory days of the 90s, regaling us with tales about how everything we’re doing has been done before, and missing what’s different about it this time, and why won’t we just build .deb packages and hand it to them to run on a big baremetal server they will administer for us, that’s who. I know, since my first 5 years of my career I was doing just that, working with crusty BOFH greybeards, before I went over to the dev side. Ok, boomer!
- chadcmulligan 7y ago
  I think you've made my point. As well as developers looking after code and producing a solution that works and meets the business case they have to look after all these things as well. seems a lot of work that is best left to admin people.

indemnity 7y ago

There is a little thing called containerisation, immutable infrastructure and infrastructure as code that has happened. This stuff is table stakes for modern applications. Who still manually patches applications in production? Who deploys artifacts that didn’t come from a build/test pipeline? Who still SSH’s into a server and hacks a config file instead of applying the configuration change with a traceable commit / PR process? Sysadmins who want to return the the glory days of the 90s, regaling us with tales about how everything we’re doing has been done before, and missing what’s different about it this time, and why won’t we just build .deb packages and hand it to them to run on a big baremetal server they will administer for us, that’s who. I know, since my first 5 years of my career I was doing just that, working with crusty BOFH greybeards, before I went over to the dev side. Ok, boomer!

chadcmulligan 7y ago
I think you've made my point. As well as developers looking after code and producing a solution that works and meets the business case they have to look after all these things as well. seems a lot of work that is best left to admin people.