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> Only about 9% of Safari users on an iPhone allow outside companies to track where they go on the web > In comparison, 79% of people who use Google’s Chrome b

> Only about 9% of Safari users on an iPhone allow outside companies to track where they go on the web > In comparison, 79% of people who use Google’s Chrome browser allow advertisers to track their browsing habits on mobile devices through cookies. Something to keep in mind the next time you see someone from Google complaining about how Apple won’t allow Google Chrome to run natively on the iPhone.

surround 7y ago
Apple won’t let Firefox run either.
- dxf 7y ago
  I'm not sure what you mean by "run"? I use Firefox as my browser on my iPhone.
  - lifthrasiir 7y ago
    iOS Firefox uses Webkit, not Gecko as intended. It does link to your Firefox accounts and so on but otherwise it is much harder to distinguish against other iOS browsers.
  - fuu_dev 7y ago
    Chrome, Firefox and similar on iOS are just skins on top of Safari. This is only true on iOS not on MacOS.
danaris 7y ago
Apple will let whatever browsers want to run on iOS. Chrome is, in fact, on there. They just won't let them using any rendering engine but WebKit—and this restriction long predates Google's current level of draconian dominance in that sphere. I don't believe the tracking settings are tied to the rendering engine, so I would be surprised if Chrome on iOS has settings that different to Chrome on macOS in that regard.
- lilyball 7y ago
  The rendering engine also includes the entire network infrastructure. I can't think of how I would plug my own network infrastructure into WKWebView on iOS, which means I can't block any built-in tracking prevention.
  - alwillis 7y ago
    Right, there'd be no way Chrome on iOS could do the same things Chrome on macOS does when it comes to cookies, etc.
  - layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
    I think you’re confusing WKWebView with SFSafariViewController. Content blockers are not used for WKWebView. You can use your own content blocking logic via the appropriate delegate calls, but the “system-wide” content blockers are not inherited from Safari.
    - lilyball 7y ago
      Intelligent Tracking Prevention and content blockers aren't the same thing though. I don't know if ITP runs for WKWebView but I really hope so.
  - reubenmorais 7y ago
    Chrome on iOS uses its own networking stack.
    - lilyball 7y ago
      What's your source for this claim?
- soup10 7y ago
  So they allow WebKit reskins, that's not the same thing as allowing competing browsers.
rodgerd 7y ago
Or thinkpieces claiming that "Safari is holding back the web".
- ksec 7y ago
  From Modern Day's Startup CEO, CTO or SVP that are under 30 or barely 30+ getting their 5 minutes of frame, while never actually programmed in the IE era and wrongly assumed IE era as IE 7 or IE 8.
Abishek_Muthian 7y ago
And when there is a security vulnerability which exploits webkit by just visiting a website, one has to wait till Apple releases an OS update(if it decides to acknowledge and fix it[1]), where as one on Firefox 'if Apple had allowed its own engine' could get updated via the AppStore. What Apple has done with the trackers is commendable, but the security argument when it comes to browsers is always in favour of allowing browsers with their own engines; which apple doesn't. [1]https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/09/apple-takes-flak-for-disputing-ios-security-bombshell-dropped-by-google/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/09/apple...
- hvmonk 7y ago
  wdyt about the frequency of security patches vs you getting tracked on all sites you visit? Not to say Apple doesn't care about security.
  - Abishek_Muthian 7y ago
    >Not to say Apple doesn't care about security. Not as much as it advertises itself as a torch bearer of Security & Privacy (or) Not as much its ardent proponents believe it to be.
- bartread 7y ago
  I may be misremembering but my understanding was that Apple disallowed other rendering engines not primarily for security reasons (although I'm sure they're a factor), but for performance and, by proxy, battery life. It's not dissimilar to the argument against Flash: yes it was insecure and unstable, but mostly it was a performance hog and a battery drain, which isn't great on mobile devices with limited battery life.
- dwaite 7y ago
  > if it decides to acknowledge and fix it The reference does not back up your claim - Apple never disputed that there was an issue, and they had already fixed it when Project Zero published their report.
- 7y ago
grey-area 7y ago
The browser rendering engine used has nothing to do with tracking permissions, which is set by the browser itself. Chrome is on iOS for example, as is Firefox.
panpanna 7y ago
I hate tracking like everyone else but what you wrote is just pure FUD. Apple forces Firefox/chrome to use their crippled engine but that has nothing to do with the parts that do the tracking. For the record, Firefox has built-in anti tracker which is enabled by default and they do that on all platforms. And don't forgot the privacy enhancements Samsung added to their browser years ago.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- AsusFan 7y ago
  > For the record, Firefox has built-in anti tracker which is enabled by default and they do that on all platforms Firefox's anti-tracking protection doesn't block google analytics by default. They only block "third party" cookies - which in practice translates as: Google's competition. The fox knows better than to bite the hand that feeds it.
  - panpanna 7y ago
    Do you have a source for that? Firefox docs and disconnect don't say anything about this https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/enhanced-tracking-protection-firefox-android https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/enhanced-tracking-prote...
    - exhilaration 7y ago
      https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox/Privacy/Tracking_Protection#What_does_this_mean_for_your_website https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox/Pri... The above specifically shows you to make sure your site continues to function when Google Analytics is blocked by Firefox. I can't find any evidence that Firefox doesn't block Google Analytics.
      - donclark 7y ago
        I highly recommend: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/umatrix/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/umatrix/

surround 7y ago

Apple won’t let Firefox run either.

dxf 7y ago
I'm not sure what you mean by "run"? I use Firefox as my browser on my iPhone.
- lifthrasiir 7y ago
  iOS Firefox uses Webkit, not Gecko as intended. It does link to your Firefox accounts and so on but otherwise it is much harder to distinguish against other iOS browsers.
- fuu_dev 7y ago
  Chrome, Firefox and similar on iOS are just skins on top of Safari. This is only true on iOS not on MacOS.

danaris 7y ago

Apple will let whatever browsers want to run on iOS. Chrome is, in fact, on there. They just won't let them using any rendering engine but WebKit—and this restriction long predates Google's current level of draconian dominance in that sphere. I don't believe the tracking settings are tied to the rendering engine, so I would be surprised if Chrome on iOS has settings that different to Chrome on macOS in that regard.

lilyball 7y ago
The rendering engine also includes the entire network infrastructure. I can't think of how I would plug my own network infrastructure into WKWebView on iOS, which means I can't block any built-in tracking prevention.
- alwillis 7y ago
  Right, there'd be no way Chrome on iOS could do the same things Chrome on macOS does when it comes to cookies, etc.
- layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
  I think you’re confusing WKWebView with SFSafariViewController. Content blockers are not used for WKWebView. You can use your own content blocking logic via the appropriate delegate calls, but the “system-wide” content blockers are not inherited from Safari.
  - lilyball 7y ago
    Intelligent Tracking Prevention and content blockers aren't the same thing though. I don't know if ITP runs for WKWebView but I really hope so.
- reubenmorais 7y ago
  Chrome on iOS uses its own networking stack.
  - lilyball 7y ago
    What's your source for this claim?
soup10 7y ago
So they allow WebKit reskins, that's not the same thing as allowing competing browsers.

rodgerd 7y ago

Or thinkpieces claiming that "Safari is holding back the web".

ksec 7y ago
From Modern Day's Startup CEO, CTO or SVP that are under 30 or barely 30+ getting their 5 minutes of frame, while never actually programmed in the IE era and wrongly assumed IE era as IE 7 or IE 8.

Abishek_Muthian 7y ago

And when there is a security vulnerability which exploits webkit by just visiting a website, one has to wait till Apple releases an OS update(if it decides to acknowledge and fix it[1]), where as one on Firefox 'if Apple had allowed its own engine' could get updated via the AppStore. What Apple has done with the trackers is commendable, but the security argument when it comes to browsers is always in favour of allowing browsers with their own engines; which apple doesn't. [1]https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/09/apple-takes-flak-for-disputing-ios-security-bombshell-dropped-by-google/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/09/apple...

hvmonk 7y ago
wdyt about the frequency of security patches vs you getting tracked on all sites you visit? Not to say Apple doesn't care about security.
- Abishek_Muthian 7y ago
  >Not to say Apple doesn't care about security. Not as much as it advertises itself as a torch bearer of Security & Privacy (or) Not as much its ardent proponents believe it to be.
bartread 7y ago
I may be misremembering but my understanding was that Apple disallowed other rendering engines not primarily for security reasons (although I'm sure they're a factor), but for performance and, by proxy, battery life. It's not dissimilar to the argument against Flash: yes it was insecure and unstable, but mostly it was a performance hog and a battery drain, which isn't great on mobile devices with limited battery life.
dwaite 7y ago
> if it decides to acknowledge and fix it The reference does not back up your claim - Apple never disputed that there was an issue, and they had already fixed it when Project Zero published their report.
7y ago

grey-area 7y ago

The browser rendering engine used has nothing to do with tracking permissions, which is set by the browser itself. Chrome is on iOS for example, as is Firefox.

panpanna 7y ago

I hate tracking like everyone else but what you wrote is just pure FUD. Apple forces Firefox/chrome to use their crippled engine but that has nothing to do with the parts that do the tracking. For the record, Firefox has built-in anti tracker which is enabled by default and they do that on all platforms. And don't forgot the privacy enhancements Samsung added to their browser years ago.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
AsusFan 7y ago
> For the record, Firefox has built-in anti tracker which is enabled by default and they do that on all platforms Firefox's anti-tracking protection doesn't block google analytics by default. They only block "third party" cookies - which in practice translates as: Google's competition. The fox knows better than to bite the hand that feeds it.
- panpanna 7y ago
  Do you have a source for that? Firefox docs and disconnect don't say anything about this https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/enhanced-tracking-protection-firefox-android https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/enhanced-tracking-prote...
  - exhilaration 7y ago
    https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox/Privacy/Tracking_Protection#What_does_this_mean_for_your_website https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox/Pri... The above specifically shows you to make sure your site continues to function when Google Analytics is blocked by Firefox. I can't find any evidence that Firefox doesn't block Google Analytics.
    - donclark 7y ago
      I highly recommend: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/umatrix/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/umatrix/