4 ms·

Can you be more specific? What is the nature of this toil?

rayiner 7y ago
I've got two kids: 15 month old boy, 7 year old girl. With the boy, the toil is literally keeping him from killing himself. If you put him downstairs, he'll try to climb up the stairs. He'll climb on the couch and fall off the other side. He'll drop things in the toilet. He'll try to pull stuff off shelves. He'll climb up the chair onto the dining room table. He is not content to sit and eat. I gave him cornbread yesterday, and he insisted on eating with a fork. (Basically just crumbling up cornbread to go everwhere.) If you take the fork away from him he cries. He does this 16 hours a day non-stop. He doesn't nap, he doesn't watch TV, etc. The girl has no internal monologue. She has to run every thought in her head by you. Most of them are pointless and incoherent, but you have to humor her. She will say "um..." just to keep warmed up for the next thing she might want to say. She requires constant attention and affirmation. She wants you to watch her do a cartwheel--identical the previous million cartwheels--and respond enthusiastically. She won't eat her vegetables. We have a rule that we eat vegetables before we eat the rest of the meal. Every meal becomes a bitter war of attrition where she fights to eat green beans as slowly as possible, hoping you will give up. (Between boy and girl, eating a meal peacefully is impossible.) Meals--when I was single I once went three months eating a turkey sandwich every day for lunch. Your kids will not put up with this. Getting them ready to go out is a huge effort. They have a million accessories (bottles, diapers, toys, etc.). They have no sense of urgency. You are trying to get to church on time while girl is starting a craft project. They generate huge amounts of clutter. Markers, crayons, paper, toys, etc. Taking a hard line on toys is little help, because their school sends them home with piles of art, crafts projects, etc. They are very rewarding. When they're sleepy and both snuggling on the couch, I hug them and think "I will never do anything better than this." My wife and I will look at the older one playing with the younger one and say: "this is the best part of life, it'll just go downhill from here." The only reason we don't have a third yet is accounting for private school tuition. At the same time, my wife and I relish going to work every Monday so we can deal with angry opposing counsel instead of picking up after the kids.
- jp42 7y ago
  So true. I have only one kid, 20 months old son and I can relate to what @rayiner is saying. kids drain your mental & physical energy throughout the day, at the same time it is so rewarding experience to have kid.
- TecoAndJix 7y ago
  My heart is so full but my mind is so tired!
- novok 7y ago
  I feel like a lot of this labor is generated by the fact that most kids in america can't go run out and play with other kids in the neighbourhood anymore. Your 7 year old would not be asking for you to endlessly watch her cartwheel and interact with her out of bordem. They would be out playing 24/7 in the local forest, come back for food and boo-boos, be back before dark and be in bed a couple of hours after dinner / night time with an 8 or 9pm sleep time and a 6am wake time. Kids were not meant to be a lot of work, our society makes them a lot of work.
  - jedberg 7y ago
    Unfortunately for those of us who want to parent this way, we risk having the authorities called on us, because the other parents watch too much local news. It's much safer to be a kid now than when I was growing up, but the news makes it seem like it isn't. I would let my seven year old walk to the park by herself, 1/2 a mile away, if I wasn't afraid of having the cops show up. When I take her to the park now, I let her play on the structure about 100 yards away, within my line of sight. And still adults will come up to her and ask her where her mommy and daddy are.
    - kelnos 7y ago
      That is really the saddest thing to me. I remember with great amounts of happiness when I was between 5 and 10 years old and would ride my bicycle around the neighborhood with my friends, go traipsing around the woods, and exercise my imagination. (Getting home and having to sit still while my mother dug through my hair and scalp for ticks was torture, but was worth it.) My nephew is not yet four years old, so he's probably still too young to be outside playing on his own, but I fear he'll be in the same boat as your daughter in a few years, unable to do anything outside of his parents' line of sight.
shantly 7y ago
I'd say every single thing one does in a day is 2-10x as difficult and 2-10x as time-consuming (usually some amount of both, but the two don't always scale in propotion) when youngish kids are involved. Things that might be quick & mindless become slow and mentally taxing, that sort of thing. Of course making mistakes in raising kids, or simply getting unlucky and having kids who are sick a lot or whatever, makes things even worse—in the best case everything's still much harder and takes longer. And each extra kid bumps up the difficulty & time factors to some degree.

I've got two kids: 15 month old boy, 7 year old girl. With the boy, the toil is literally keeping him from killing himself. If you put him downstairs, he'll try to climb up the stairs. He'll climb on the couch and fall off the other side. He'll drop things in the toilet. He'll try to pull stuff off shelves. He'll climb up the chair onto the dining room table. He is not content to sit and eat. I gave him cornbread yesterday, and he insisted on eating with a fork. (Basically just crumbling up cornbread to go everwhere.) If you take the fork away from him he cries. He does this 16 hours a day non-stop. He doesn't nap, he doesn't watch TV, etc. The girl has no internal monologue. She has to run every thought in her head by you. Most of them are pointless and incoherent, but you have to humor her. She will say "um..." just to keep warmed up for the next thing she might want to say. She requires constant attention and affirmation. She wants you to watch her do a cartwheel--identical the previous million cartwheels--and respond enthusiastically. She won't eat her vegetables. We have a rule that we eat vegetables before we eat the rest of the meal. Every meal becomes a bitter war of attrition where she fights to eat green beans as slowly as possible, hoping you will give up. (Between boy and girl, eating a meal peacefully is impossible.) Meals--when I was single I once went three months eating a turkey sandwich every day for lunch. Your kids will not put up with this. Getting them ready to go out is a huge effort. They have a million accessories (bottles, diapers, toys, etc.). They have no sense of urgency. You are trying to get to church on time while girl is starting a craft project. They generate huge amounts of clutter. Markers, crayons, paper, toys, etc. Taking a hard line on toys is little help, because their school sends them home with piles of art, crafts projects, etc. They are very rewarding. When they're sleepy and both snuggling on the couch, I hug them and think "I will never do anything better than this." My wife and I will look at the older one playing with the younger one and say: "this is the best part of life, it'll just go downhill from here." The only reason we don't have a third yet is accounting for private school tuition. At the same time, my wife and I relish going to work every Monday so we can deal with angry opposing counsel instead of picking up after the kids.

jp42 7y ago
So true. I have only one kid, 20 months old son and I can relate to what @rayiner is saying. kids drain your mental & physical energy throughout the day, at the same time it is so rewarding experience to have kid.
TecoAndJix 7y ago
My heart is so full but my mind is so tired!
novok 7y ago
I feel like a lot of this labor is generated by the fact that most kids in america can't go run out and play with other kids in the neighbourhood anymore. Your 7 year old would not be asking for you to endlessly watch her cartwheel and interact with her out of bordem. They would be out playing 24/7 in the local forest, come back for food and boo-boos, be back before dark and be in bed a couple of hours after dinner / night time with an 8 or 9pm sleep time and a 6am wake time. Kids were not meant to be a lot of work, our society makes them a lot of work.
- jedberg 7y ago
  Unfortunately for those of us who want to parent this way, we risk having the authorities called on us, because the other parents watch too much local news. It's much safer to be a kid now than when I was growing up, but the news makes it seem like it isn't. I would let my seven year old walk to the park by herself, 1/2 a mile away, if I wasn't afraid of having the cops show up. When I take her to the park now, I let her play on the structure about 100 yards away, within my line of sight. And still adults will come up to her and ask her where her mommy and daddy are.
  - kelnos 7y ago
    That is really the saddest thing to me. I remember with great amounts of happiness when I was between 5 and 10 years old and would ride my bicycle around the neighborhood with my friends, go traipsing around the woods, and exercise my imagination. (Getting home and having to sit still while my mother dug through my hair and scalp for ticks was torture, but was worth it.) My nephew is not yet four years old, so he's probably still too young to be outside playing on his own, but I fear he'll be in the same boat as your daughter in a few years, unable to do anything outside of his parents' line of sight.

shantly 7y ago

I'd say every single thing one does in a day is 2-10x as difficult and 2-10x as time-consuming (usually some amount of both, but the two don't always scale in propotion) when youngish kids are involved. Things that might be quick & mindless become slow and mentally taxing, that sort of thing. Of course making mistakes in raising kids, or simply getting unlucky and having kids who are sick a lot or whatever, makes things even worse—in the best case everything's still much harder and takes longer. And each extra kid bumps up the difficulty & time factors to some degree.