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The entire study is not very interesting. They studied a single bank in Asia with "thousands of employees." They don't name the bank. They don't even name the c

The entire study is not very interesting. They studied a single bank in Asia with "thousands of employees." They don't name the bank. They don't even name the country. They make no attempt to address cultural differences. They disclaim that the study is representative of the world, but then offer some mental gymnastics which imply without actually suggesting that it represents the US because of the country's similarity to the US in gender employment numbers and attitudes.

patel011393 7y ago
It is very common in social science research to anonymize participants by not revealing their location. This is an important ethical rule that is used to protect participants’ data. I believe that is why these authors were unclear about the bank.
- deogeo 7y ago
  That doesn't make their claim that their results for an Asian country are representative for the US any less suspect. Asian and Western cultures are very different. These are not anecdotal observations mind you - it's well documented that psychological/sociological experiment results differ by culture: https://www.psychologistworld.com/issues/cultural-differences-psychology https://www.psychologistworld.com/issues/cultural-difference... It's quite bizarre - if they refuse to name the actual country where the study took place, then why compare it to the US? Why not to Russia or Brazil, or some other random country, drawn out of a hat? Why even include "old boys' club", in the title, when that's a term mostly associated with the anglosphere? Wouldn't "Guanxi [1]: Schmoozing and the Gender Gap" be more appropriate, given that the study took place in Asia? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanxi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanxi
nimblegorilla 7y ago
> The entire study is not very interesting. The study still has value even if they didn't perfectly study 100% of the world. It provides a useful datapoint for other researchers to build upon.
psychometry 7y ago
You try doing a large-scale study at multiple companies on multiple continents at once, then. Your comment suggests you don't really understand the immense challenge of doing sociological work in a way that's both ethical and useful.
- anongraddebt 7y ago
  One of the reasons it is difficult to produce useful sociological work is because sociology itself has questionable foundations.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- whatshisface 7y ago
  >Your comment suggests you don't really understand the immense challenge of doing sociological work in a way that's both ethical and useful. The fact that something is immensely difficult doesn't make success more likely, it makes it less likely. The parent comment is saying that the study didn't achieve success, which is supported by your claim that sociological work is up against tremendous challenges. An analogy would be if someone claimed to invent a perpetual motion machine, and then responded to someone who was saying that their machine didn't work with, "you try building one, then."
  - nimblegorilla 7y ago
    The study was very upfront about the limitations. A better analogy would be someone trying to debunk the theory of relativity by claiming it doesn't cover perpetual motion machines.
    - cgriswald 7y ago
      > The study was very upfront about the limitations. That's an overly generous interpretation of their comments. See deogeo's post with some questions about why many of these things are even mentioned in the paper. Where they were upfront has already been acknowledged--by me. My criticisms were where they implied, but did not support a comparison to US-based finance companies generally. Here they were 'upfront' but they shrank what should be several papers worth of arguments into a single word: 'similar'. > A better analogy would be someone trying to debunk the theory of relativity by claiming it doesn't cover perpetual motion machines. If you think this is a better analogy, you've missed the point entirely.
Digory 7y ago
The "streetlight effect"[0] appears alive and well among sociologists. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetlight_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetlight_effect

patel011393 7y ago

It is very common in social science research to anonymize participants by not revealing their location. This is an important ethical rule that is used to protect participants’ data. I believe that is why these authors were unclear about the bank.

deogeo 7y ago
That doesn't make their claim that their results for an Asian country are representative for the US any less suspect. Asian and Western cultures are very different. These are not anecdotal observations mind you - it's well documented that psychological/sociological experiment results differ by culture: https://www.psychologistworld.com/issues/cultural-differences-psychology https://www.psychologistworld.com/issues/cultural-difference... It's quite bizarre - if they refuse to name the actual country where the study took place, then why compare it to the US? Why not to Russia or Brazil, or some other random country, drawn out of a hat? Why even include "old boys' club", in the title, when that's a term mostly associated with the anglosphere? Wouldn't "Guanxi [1]: Schmoozing and the Gender Gap" be more appropriate, given that the study took place in Asia? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanxi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanxi

nimblegorilla 7y ago

> The entire study is not very interesting. The study still has value even if they didn't perfectly study 100% of the world. It provides a useful datapoint for other researchers to build upon.

psychometry 7y ago

You try doing a large-scale study at multiple companies on multiple continents at once, then. Your comment suggests you don't really understand the immense challenge of doing sociological work in a way that's both ethical and useful.

anongraddebt 7y ago
One of the reasons it is difficult to produce useful sociological work is because sociology itself has questionable foundations.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
whatshisface 7y ago
>Your comment suggests you don't really understand the immense challenge of doing sociological work in a way that's both ethical and useful. The fact that something is immensely difficult doesn't make success more likely, it makes it less likely. The parent comment is saying that the study didn't achieve success, which is supported by your claim that sociological work is up against tremendous challenges. An analogy would be if someone claimed to invent a perpetual motion machine, and then responded to someone who was saying that their machine didn't work with, "you try building one, then."
- nimblegorilla 7y ago
  The study was very upfront about the limitations. A better analogy would be someone trying to debunk the theory of relativity by claiming it doesn't cover perpetual motion machines.
  - cgriswald 7y ago
    > The study was very upfront about the limitations. That's an overly generous interpretation of their comments. See deogeo's post with some questions about why many of these things are even mentioned in the paper. Where they were upfront has already been acknowledged--by me. My criticisms were where they implied, but did not support a comparison to US-based finance companies generally. Here they were 'upfront' but they shrank what should be several papers worth of arguments into a single word: 'similar'. > A better analogy would be someone trying to debunk the theory of relativity by claiming it doesn't cover perpetual motion machines. If you think this is a better analogy, you've missed the point entirely.

Digory 7y ago

The "streetlight effect"[0] appears alive and well among sociologists. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetlight_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetlight_effect