4 ms·

If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity

by aj7 7y ago

If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea. Enough said.

tasuki 7y ago
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
- dsjoerg 7y ago
  Who never once got anyone to build a ship or anything else
  - svara 7y ago
    How do you know that? As an internationally famous author, he has certainly influenced people in some way. It's just incredibly hard to measure how exactly. Arguably, he precisely described the role for artists in society with that quote.
  - ronilan 7y ago
    Maybe. But he did make a fundamental scientific discovery. He proved that snakes and elephants cause Gaussian distribution.
  - Verdex 7y ago
    To be fair, the whole quote is about getting people excited to do work not by telling them the actual actions they have to perform, but selling them a dream to long for and work towards. It could be that his goal was to get people to repeat his quote about building ships. And he did it by selling some dream about being motivational by telling a grand story.
  - lstodd 7y ago
    Citation needed.
stronglikedan 7y ago
> teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea And then ask them to build the ship for free in exchange for being able to sail the endless sea on it.
kybernetikos 7y ago
I love the sentiment and there is clearly a nugget of truth in it, but I can point to companies that successfully build ships by drumming up people and assigning them tasks and work. Can you point to any that build ships through the teaching of longing?
- thethimble 7y ago
  I think Elon Musk's companies are great examples. "Make humans an interplanetary species" "Accelerate the adoption of sustainable energy" These tag lines are much more aspirational than the actual things the companies are currently building (rockets and cars).
  - kybernetikos 7y ago
    And yet they are well known as companies that do a lot of drumming up and assigning.
- xtiansimon 7y ago
  It goes to the heart of a CEO’s job—leadership. Keeping all the of the company engaged in shares objectives, values, goals. You delegate the collection of wood. And if it’s the 15th century, you inspire sailors to risk the unknown and help them cope with the fear of falling of the edge of the world.
- Enginerrrd 7y ago
  I think this happens at the middle management level. Most the upper management exercises of corporate mottos, vision, mission statements, etc. is an abstraction too far removed from day to day work to be useful to lower level employees. Maybe it helps them with their planning, but even on that I'm skeptical. Those things have worked for some Japanese companies with a very different culture around collective work, but they don't really work as well applied in the West, IMO. Now at the middle management to immediate supervisor level, there's a huge boost to morale, and I believe ultimately productivity & innovation that happens when you include employees in your own thinking and motivations. It's a lot easier to please someone when you know how they think and why they want certain aspects of a project to go the way they want, and allows you to better predict when it might be appropriate to go off script a little or make a perpendicular suggestion. Otherwise, when you treat a human like a machine, and dissuade them from any bigger picture thinking, you can get all sorts of problems. Micromanagement, malicious compliance, and most importantly: you are isolating them from the natural group dynamics and teamwork that humans do well under.
_jal 7y ago
...but make sure to get the NDAs and IP signatures first.
notathrowaway31 7y ago
I’m not getting on that boat for sure
tnolet 7y ago
> If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea. ...and after that: - give them clear, measurable objectives. - provide concrete feedback on performance. - plan, update & communicate only setting wishy washy north stars and visions is a fantastic way to drive your company into an unguided chaos.
- pcurve 7y ago
  Yep.thats the hardest part. Anybody could set the north stars and hide behind the generalities. Whoever sets that vision should also be able to articulate 1 to 2 level below that so each level has sense of purpose and direction.
SahAssar 7y ago
I think this could just as well lead to the intro of http://www.stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks http://www.stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks : > Imagine joining an engineering team. You’re excited and full of ideas, probably just out of school and a world of clean, beautiful designs, awe-inspiring in their aesthetic unity of purpose, economy, and strength. You start by meeting Mary, project leader for a bridge in a major metropolitan area. Mary introduces you to Fred, after you get through the fifteen security checks installed by Dave because Dave had his sweater stolen off his desk once and Never Again. Fred only works with wood, so you ask why he’s involved because this bridge is supposed to allow rush-hour traffic full of cars full of mortal humans to cross a 200-foot drop over rapids. Don’t worry, says Mary, Fred’s going to handle the walkways. What walkways? Well Fred made a good case for walkways and they’re going to add to the bridge’s appeal. Of course, they’ll have to be built without railings, because there’s a strict no railings rule enforced by Phil, who’s not an engineer. Nobody’s sure what Phil does, but it’s definitely full of synergy and has to do with upper management, whom none of the engineers want to deal with so they just let Phil do what he wants. Sara, meanwhile, has found several hemorrhaging-edge paving techniques, and worked them all into the bridge design, so you’ll have to build around each one as the bridge progresses, since each one means different underlying support and safety concerns. Tom and Harry have been working together for years, but have an ongoing feud over whether to use metric or imperial measurements, and it’s become a case of “whoever got to that part of the design first.” This has been such a headache for the people actually screwing things together, they’ve given up and just forced, hammered, or welded their way through the day with whatever parts were handy. Also, the bridge was designed as a suspension bridge, but nobody actually knew how to build a suspension bridge, so they got halfway through it and then just added extra support columns to keep the thing standing, but they left the suspension cables because they’re still sort of holding up parts of the bridge. Nobody knows which parts, but everybody’s pretty sure they’re important parts.
- mhink 7y ago
  You left out the best part! (Although, to be fair, the entire article could very well be called "the best part") > After the introductions are made, you are invited to come up with some new ideas, but you don’t have any because you’re a propulsion engineer and don’t know anything about bridges.
OnlineCourage 7y ago
Sounds like something Adam Nuemann would say.

by aj7 7y ago

If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea. Enough said.

tasuki 7y ago

-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

dsjoerg 7y ago
Who never once got anyone to build a ship or anything else
- svara 7y ago
  How do you know that? As an internationally famous author, he has certainly influenced people in some way. It's just incredibly hard to measure how exactly. Arguably, he precisely described the role for artists in society with that quote.
- ronilan 7y ago
  Maybe. But he did make a fundamental scientific discovery. He proved that snakes and elephants cause Gaussian distribution.
- Verdex 7y ago
  To be fair, the whole quote is about getting people excited to do work not by telling them the actual actions they have to perform, but selling them a dream to long for and work towards. It could be that his goal was to get people to repeat his quote about building ships. And he did it by selling some dream about being motivational by telling a grand story.
- lstodd 7y ago
  Citation needed.

stronglikedan 7y ago

> teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea And then ask them to build the ship for free in exchange for being able to sail the endless sea on it.

kybernetikos 7y ago

I love the sentiment and there is clearly a nugget of truth in it, but I can point to companies that successfully build ships by drumming up people and assigning them tasks and work. Can you point to any that build ships through the teaching of longing?

thethimble 7y ago
I think Elon Musk's companies are great examples. "Make humans an interplanetary species" "Accelerate the adoption of sustainable energy" These tag lines are much more aspirational than the actual things the companies are currently building (rockets and cars).
- kybernetikos 7y ago
  And yet they are well known as companies that do a lot of drumming up and assigning.
xtiansimon 7y ago
It goes to the heart of a CEO’s job—leadership. Keeping all the of the company engaged in shares objectives, values, goals. You delegate the collection of wood. And if it’s the 15th century, you inspire sailors to risk the unknown and help them cope with the fear of falling of the edge of the world.
Enginerrrd 7y ago
I think this happens at the middle management level. Most the upper management exercises of corporate mottos, vision, mission statements, etc. is an abstraction too far removed from day to day work to be useful to lower level employees. Maybe it helps them with their planning, but even on that I'm skeptical. Those things have worked for some Japanese companies with a very different culture around collective work, but they don't really work as well applied in the West, IMO. Now at the middle management to immediate supervisor level, there's a huge boost to morale, and I believe ultimately productivity & innovation that happens when you include employees in your own thinking and motivations. It's a lot easier to please someone when you know how they think and why they want certain aspects of a project to go the way they want, and allows you to better predict when it might be appropriate to go off script a little or make a perpendicular suggestion. Otherwise, when you treat a human like a machine, and dissuade them from any bigger picture thinking, you can get all sorts of problems. Micromanagement, malicious compliance, and most importantly: you are isolating them from the natural group dynamics and teamwork that humans do well under.

_jal 7y ago

...but make sure to get the NDAs and IP signatures first.

notathrowaway31 7y ago

I’m not getting on that boat for sure

tnolet 7y ago

> If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea. ...and after that: - give them clear, measurable objectives. - provide concrete feedback on performance. - plan, update & communicate only setting wishy washy north stars and visions is a fantastic way to drive your company into an unguided chaos.

pcurve 7y ago
Yep.thats the hardest part. Anybody could set the north stars and hide behind the generalities. Whoever sets that vision should also be able to articulate 1 to 2 level below that so each level has sense of purpose and direction.

SahAssar 7y ago

I think this could just as well lead to the intro of http://www.stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks http://www.stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks : > Imagine joining an engineering team. You’re excited and full of ideas, probably just out of school and a world of clean, beautiful designs, awe-inspiring in their aesthetic unity of purpose, economy, and strength. You start by meeting Mary, project leader for a bridge in a major metropolitan area. Mary introduces you to Fred, after you get through the fifteen security checks installed by Dave because Dave had his sweater stolen off his desk once and Never Again. Fred only works with wood, so you ask why he’s involved because this bridge is supposed to allow rush-hour traffic full of cars full of mortal humans to cross a 200-foot drop over rapids. Don’t worry, says Mary, Fred’s going to handle the walkways. What walkways? Well Fred made a good case for walkways and they’re going to add to the bridge’s appeal. Of course, they’ll have to be built without railings, because there’s a strict no railings rule enforced by Phil, who’s not an engineer. Nobody’s sure what Phil does, but it’s definitely full of synergy and has to do with upper management, whom none of the engineers want to deal with so they just let Phil do what he wants. Sara, meanwhile, has found several hemorrhaging-edge paving techniques, and worked them all into the bridge design, so you’ll have to build around each one as the bridge progresses, since each one means different underlying support and safety concerns. Tom and Harry have been working together for years, but have an ongoing feud over whether to use metric or imperial measurements, and it’s become a case of “whoever got to that part of the design first.” This has been such a headache for the people actually screwing things together, they’ve given up and just forced, hammered, or welded their way through the day with whatever parts were handy. Also, the bridge was designed as a suspension bridge, but nobody actually knew how to build a suspension bridge, so they got halfway through it and then just added extra support columns to keep the thing standing, but they left the suspension cables because they’re still sort of holding up parts of the bridge. Nobody knows which parts, but everybody’s pretty sure they’re important parts.

mhink 7y ago
You left out the best part! (Although, to be fair, the entire article could very well be called "the best part") > After the introductions are made, you are invited to come up with some new ideas, but you don’t have any because you’re a propulsion engineer and don’t know anything about bridges.

OnlineCourage 7y ago

Sounds like something Adam Nuemann would say.