5 ms·

>Anti-ADHD medication will make up (and then some) for crappy diet, no exercise and bad sleep (this one probably only to a certain extent). imo and ime, adhd m

>Anti-ADHD medication will make up (and then some) for crappy diet, no exercise and bad sleep (this one probably only to a certain extent). imo and ime, adhd meds like amphetamine derivatives will NOT make up for these things, but it will allow you to push through not having them them for a limited time. These things will eventually catch up to you in a few weeks.

IAmEveryone 7y ago
Tolerance does (empirically) not develop for ritalin/amphetamine used at appropriate dosages for ADHD, nor do users incur "sleep debt" or anything similar. This model of people "crashing after a few weeks" and similar are mostly driven by people's idea of how a just world should operate, not by actual data--as your use of the morality-laden phrase "catch up" nicely demonstrates. While some drugs exhibit such behaviour (L-DOPA, caffeine), far more do not (insulin, Aspirin). Some even become more potent with regular use (glucocorticoids, unfortunately). Many are somewhere in-between. Alcohol is a pretty good example to calibrate your intuitions: it's probably at the "yes tolerance!" end of the scale. If you have ever gone to college you will have noticed your alcohol sensitivity decreasing. But this effect has an even more noticeable plateau, and it's a far cry from no longer being able to get drunk. The ADHD reaction to amphetamines is somewhat atypical anyway: it does not produce agitation as it does for "normal" people or at higher doses, but rather calmness/zen/serenity. IIRC sleep duration and quality tend to increase, for example. Even amphetamine abuse is unlikely to actually kill you[0], nor will you accumulate <negative mojo x>. Just look at the average life expectancy on Wall Street. It does, however, significant alter behaviour: it provokes a certain OCD-like enjoyment of stressful but repetitive work (fighter pilot, stockbroker, Elton John) while somewhat ruining your ability to function socially or cope with varied tasks. [0]: Speed will kill you the first or second time you take if you are unlucky enough to have a pre-existing heart condition. Cocaine will kill you with constant probability over time.
- vangelis 7y ago
  We're talking about these things as a replacement for rather than in addition to a healthy diet and sleep schedule.
  - IAmEveryone 7y ago
    Both an unhealthy diet and irregular sleep are more likely to be symptoms of any given neurological condition rather than causes. Someone willing to take medication and/or seek psychiatric help probably has tried "just sleep 8h per day" a few (dozen) times before. Even the famous marshmallow experiment didn't claim that people eating the marshmallow right away caused their disappointing career trajectories. (the successful people actually got twice as many marshmallows out of that experiment-go figure)
- bluntfang 7y ago
  Let's be very clear here, this thread is talking about nootropics, not therapy for existing conditions. I in no way made any claim to the effectiveness of these medications for their prescribed use.
  - balfirevic 7y ago
    Medications for ADHD are literally used as nootropics. That is their mode of operation - they increase mental focus. They do it whether you have normal mental focus or lessened mental focus due to ADHD (in which case they are considered therapy) or whatever lifestyle issues you may have.
    - bluntfang 7y ago
      We aren't talking about therapy for DSM-V conditions in this thread, is that more clear?
    - fao_ 7y ago
      > That is their mode of operation - they increase mental focus. That's a misunderstanding of how ADHD works for most people. Most people with ADHD do not experience a deficiency with focus, but an inability to selectively focus on something. What someone with ADHD needs to do, they might not be able to focus on, and yet they may be able to hyperfocus on a task that they enjoy. Thus it can be seen that they do not lack the ability to focus, but merely the ability to control how they focus on something, and how intensely they focus on something. ADHD medication is focused on not improving focus, but improving their ability to control that focus. The brain for people with ADHD is very different, and people with ADHD generally do not find that stimulants act in the way that they do for people without ADHD. https://www.additudemag.com/understanding-adhd-hyperfocus/ https://www.additudemag.com/understanding-adhd-hyperfocus/ https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-distracted-couple/201411/adhd-hyperfocus-what-is-it-and-how-use-it https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-distracted-coupl... https://www.mattressreviews.com/adhd-and-sleep/ https://www.mattressreviews.com/adhd-and-sleep/ https://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/571987 https://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/571987

IAmEveryone 7y ago

Tolerance does (empirically) not develop for ritalin/amphetamine used at appropriate dosages for ADHD, nor do users incur "sleep debt" or anything similar. This model of people "crashing after a few weeks" and similar are mostly driven by people's idea of how a just world should operate, not by actual data--as your use of the morality-laden phrase "catch up" nicely demonstrates. While some drugs exhibit such behaviour (L-DOPA, caffeine), far more do not (insulin, Aspirin). Some even become more potent with regular use (glucocorticoids, unfortunately). Many are somewhere in-between. Alcohol is a pretty good example to calibrate your intuitions: it's probably at the "yes tolerance!" end of the scale. If you have ever gone to college you will have noticed your alcohol sensitivity decreasing. But this effect has an even more noticeable plateau, and it's a far cry from no longer being able to get drunk. The ADHD reaction to amphetamines is somewhat atypical anyway: it does not produce agitation as it does for "normal" people or at higher doses, but rather calmness/zen/serenity. IIRC sleep duration and quality tend to increase, for example. Even amphetamine abuse is unlikely to actually kill you[0], nor will you accumulate <negative mojo x>. Just look at the average life expectancy on Wall Street. It does, however, significant alter behaviour: it provokes a certain OCD-like enjoyment of stressful but repetitive work (fighter pilot, stockbroker, Elton John) while somewhat ruining your ability to function socially or cope with varied tasks. [0]: Speed will kill you the first or second time you take if you are unlucky enough to have a pre-existing heart condition. Cocaine will kill you with constant probability over time.

vangelis 7y ago
We're talking about these things as a replacement for rather than in addition to a healthy diet and sleep schedule.
- IAmEveryone 7y ago
  Both an unhealthy diet and irregular sleep are more likely to be symptoms of any given neurological condition rather than causes. Someone willing to take medication and/or seek psychiatric help probably has tried "just sleep 8h per day" a few (dozen) times before. Even the famous marshmallow experiment didn't claim that people eating the marshmallow right away caused their disappointing career trajectories. (the successful people actually got twice as many marshmallows out of that experiment-go figure)
bluntfang 7y ago
Let's be very clear here, this thread is talking about nootropics, not therapy for existing conditions. I in no way made any claim to the effectiveness of these medications for their prescribed use.
- balfirevic 7y ago
  Medications for ADHD are literally used as nootropics. That is their mode of operation - they increase mental focus. They do it whether you have normal mental focus or lessened mental focus due to ADHD (in which case they are considered therapy) or whatever lifestyle issues you may have.
  - bluntfang 7y ago
    We aren't talking about therapy for DSM-V conditions in this thread, is that more clear?
  - fao_ 7y ago
    > That is their mode of operation - they increase mental focus. That's a misunderstanding of how ADHD works for most people. Most people with ADHD do not experience a deficiency with focus, but an inability to selectively focus on something. What someone with ADHD needs to do, they might not be able to focus on, and yet they may be able to hyperfocus on a task that they enjoy. Thus it can be seen that they do not lack the ability to focus, but merely the ability to control how they focus on something, and how intensely they focus on something. ADHD medication is focused on not improving focus, but improving their ability to control that focus. The brain for people with ADHD is very different, and people with ADHD generally do not find that stimulants act in the way that they do for people without ADHD. https://www.additudemag.com/understanding-adhd-hyperfocus/ https://www.additudemag.com/understanding-adhd-hyperfocus/ https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-distracted-couple/201411/adhd-hyperfocus-what-is-it-and-how-use-it https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-distracted-coupl... https://www.mattressreviews.com/adhd-and-sleep/ https://www.mattressreviews.com/adhd-and-sleep/ https://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/571987 https://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/571987