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Fresh water is a rather precious commodity and running a dishwasher just to dispose of stuff uses even more power (even the soaps used are generally not particu

by hajile 7y ago

Fresh water is a rather precious commodity and running a dishwasher just to dispose of stuff uses even more power (even the soaps used are generally not particularly friendly for the environment). A better idea is a 5-gallon bucket of rainwater and an old bottle brush. Recyclables need only have the large dirt removed rather than being germ-free like a dishwasher is designed for.

nathancahill 7y ago
I knew I would get called out because I wasn't clear enough. I run the dishwasher about once a week. If there's space in the top for greasy plastic that's going to be recycled I throw it in. The point is, recycling companies just trash everything that isn't clean.
lotsofpulp 7y ago
Aside from aluminum, I really doubt it’s worth all the effort to recycle, especially because most people can’t be trusted to sort and clean properly, and most facilities won’t make a profit paying for the labor to do it. Reducing consumption is the only answer, and further down is reusing. But recycling is so inefficient, I assume it has mostly been for political points, and conveniently, we had tons of containers going back empty to China.
me_me_me 7y ago
> if there's space I think they meant that they do it then they do dishes and have space for cleaning trash. In that case there is nothing wasteful in it.
Spooky23 7y ago
If you're washing your dishes anyway, there's no marginal harm.
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
>running a dishwasher just to dispose of stuff uses even more power A dishwasher is more efficient than hand washing under normal circumstances (not an ancient dishwasher, not pre-washing dishes, more than one plate to wash, etc).[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8] Edit: added citations and removed "IIRC" [1] https://www.pcrichard.com/library/blogArticle/why-dishwashers-are-better-than-hand-washing/1101150.pcra https://www.pcrichard.com/library/blogArticle/why-dishwasher... [2] https://www.reviewed.com/dishwashers/features/please-stop-hand-washing-your-dishes https://www.reviewed.com/dishwashers/features/please-stop-ha... [3] https://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener.html https://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashe... [4]https://www.realsimple.com/home-organizing/cleaning/more-techniques/dishwasher-vs-hand-washing https://www.realsimple.com/home-organizing/cleaning/more-tec... [5] https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-much-water-do-dishwashers-use/ https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-much-water-do-dishwashers-us... [6] https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/11/24/564055953/to-save-water-should-you-wash-your-hands-of-hand-washing-dishes https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/11/24/564055953/to... [7] https://www.huffpost.com/entry/wash-dishes_n_7232216?guccounter=1 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/wash-dishes_n_7232216?guccoun... [8] https://www.energystar.gov/products/appliances/dishwashers/dishwasher_hand_washing https://www.energystar.gov/products/appliances/dishwashers/d...
- Dirlewanger 7y ago
  Yeah it is..if you're hand washing with the tap on full blast.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    I bothered to look it up and edited my original comment with citations. TL;DR the dishwasher wins in most cases.
  - smileysteve 7y ago
    A dishwasher in the normal cycle uses about as much water as an efficient person uses in washing a single large pot without the tap running (reusing this water for washing all dishes is the most efficient way to hand wash) In addition, a dishwasher has high pressure pumps, a centrifugal grinder, and its own water heater (to heat hotter and more localized than a central water heater, above sanitizing levels)
    - hajile 7y ago
      The assumptions here are wrong because they are based on creating sanitary dishes suitable for human foodstuffs. Recyclables don't need to be sanitary -- just free of large amounts of dirt. * You don't need rinse water, so the total water needed is at least halved. Since the water is just sitting in a bucket, you can do many, many washings with the same water which increases that efficiency even more. * You don't need heated water as sanitation and complete cleanliness is unimportant. Heating the water alone uses more energy than everything else put together. * You don't need particularly clean water, just clean enough to prevent large dirt from adhering. As such you could use floor-cleaning chemicals that clump the dirt and precipitate it to the bottom increasing use time. Reusing water and the chemicals in that water for longer has a very large impact on the environment. * a couple strokes with a bottle brush take way less energy than a high-pressure pump and once again, get the item clean enough. * Fewer things going through your dishwasher increases its lifespan and decreases the total cost of operation. This is also better for the environment
schaefer 7y ago
fun fact: In many desert communities of the American Southwest, there are laws prohibiting collection of rain water that falls on your property. please don't be so quick to judge when the individual's circumstances may be more complex than first assumed.
- hajile 7y ago
  I doubt such laws have EVER seen their day in court vs an individual collecting a few gallons of water for personal use. That would seem to clearly violate constitutional rights to life and liberty. The only case where they might have any weight would be widespread collection of water to the extent that it had a measurable impact on the community, but this would involve large quantities of water and would almost certainly involve business interests rather than personal ones.
  - schaefer 7y ago
    Here's contact info for 20 water rights lawyers serving my hometown of Las Vegas, NV [1]. To be blunt, you are underestimating the complexities of water rights law. [1]: https://attorneys.lawinfo.com/water-rights/nevada/las-vegas/ https://attorneys.lawinfo.com/water-rights/nevada/las-vegas/

by hajile 7y ago

nathancahill 7y ago

I knew I would get called out because I wasn't clear enough. I run the dishwasher about once a week. If there's space in the top for greasy plastic that's going to be recycled I throw it in. The point is, recycling companies just trash everything that isn't clean.

lotsofpulp 7y ago

Aside from aluminum, I really doubt it’s worth all the effort to recycle, especially because most people can’t be trusted to sort and clean properly, and most facilities won’t make a profit paying for the labor to do it. Reducing consumption is the only answer, and further down is reusing. But recycling is so inefficient, I assume it has mostly been for political points, and conveniently, we had tons of containers going back empty to China.

me_me_me 7y ago

> if there's space I think they meant that they do it then they do dishes and have space for cleaning trash. In that case there is nothing wasteful in it.

Spooky23 7y ago

If you're washing your dishes anyway, there's no marginal harm.

dsfyu404ed 7y ago

>running a dishwasher just to dispose of stuff uses even more power A dishwasher is more efficient than hand washing under normal circumstances (not an ancient dishwasher, not pre-washing dishes, more than one plate to wash, etc).[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8] Edit: added citations and removed "IIRC" [1] https://www.pcrichard.com/library/blogArticle/why-dishwashers-are-better-than-hand-washing/1101150.pcra https://www.pcrichard.com/library/blogArticle/why-dishwasher... [2] https://www.reviewed.com/dishwashers/features/please-stop-hand-washing-your-dishes https://www.reviewed.com/dishwashers/features/please-stop-ha... [3] https://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener.html https://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashe... [4]https://www.realsimple.com/home-organizing/cleaning/more-techniques/dishwasher-vs-hand-washing https://www.realsimple.com/home-organizing/cleaning/more-tec... [5] https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-much-water-do-dishwashers-use/ https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-much-water-do-dishwashers-us... [6] https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/11/24/564055953/to-save-water-should-you-wash-your-hands-of-hand-washing-dishes https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/11/24/564055953/to... [7] https://www.huffpost.com/entry/wash-dishes_n_7232216?guccounter=1 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/wash-dishes_n_7232216?guccoun... [8] https://www.energystar.gov/products/appliances/dishwashers/dishwasher_hand_washing https://www.energystar.gov/products/appliances/dishwashers/d...

Dirlewanger 7y ago
Yeah it is..if you're hand washing with the tap on full blast.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  I bothered to look it up and edited my original comment with citations. TL;DR the dishwasher wins in most cases.
- smileysteve 7y ago
  A dishwasher in the normal cycle uses about as much water as an efficient person uses in washing a single large pot without the tap running (reusing this water for washing all dishes is the most efficient way to hand wash) In addition, a dishwasher has high pressure pumps, a centrifugal grinder, and its own water heater (to heat hotter and more localized than a central water heater, above sanitizing levels)
  - hajile 7y ago
    The assumptions here are wrong because they are based on creating sanitary dishes suitable for human foodstuffs. Recyclables don't need to be sanitary -- just free of large amounts of dirt. * You don't need rinse water, so the total water needed is at least halved. Since the water is just sitting in a bucket, you can do many, many washings with the same water which increases that efficiency even more. * You don't need heated water as sanitation and complete cleanliness is unimportant. Heating the water alone uses more energy than everything else put together. * You don't need particularly clean water, just clean enough to prevent large dirt from adhering. As such you could use floor-cleaning chemicals that clump the dirt and precipitate it to the bottom increasing use time. Reusing water and the chemicals in that water for longer has a very large impact on the environment. * a couple strokes with a bottle brush take way less energy than a high-pressure pump and once again, get the item clean enough. * Fewer things going through your dishwasher increases its lifespan and decreases the total cost of operation. This is also better for the environment

schaefer 7y ago

fun fact: In many desert communities of the American Southwest, there are laws prohibiting collection of rain water that falls on your property. please don't be so quick to judge when the individual's circumstances may be more complex than first assumed.

hajile 7y ago
I doubt such laws have EVER seen their day in court vs an individual collecting a few gallons of water for personal use. That would seem to clearly violate constitutional rights to life and liberty. The only case where they might have any weight would be widespread collection of water to the extent that it had a measurable impact on the community, but this would involve large quantities of water and would almost certainly involve business interests rather than personal ones.
- schaefer 7y ago
  Here's contact info for 20 water rights lawyers serving my hometown of Las Vegas, NV [1]. To be blunt, you are underestimating the complexities of water rights law. [1]: https://attorneys.lawinfo.com/water-rights/nevada/las-vegas/ https://attorneys.lawinfo.com/water-rights/nevada/las-vegas/