7 ms·

Treating charging like we treat fuelling is the problem. The reason we have gas stations is because we have to store and dispense the fuel safely. We don't have

Treating charging like we treat fuelling is the problem. The reason we have gas stations is because we have to store and dispense the fuel safely. We don't have a safe, effective system to transport gasoline to all of our homes and offices. Natural gas cars would be one option, with "pumps" at our homes to fill up our cars, but gasoline is always going to be in underground tanks at a filling station. Electricity is easily and safely delivered to our homes and offices and indeed, most EV owners probably do the majority of their charging at their own homes. The issue of EV charging is actually tied to the range of the cars. If you get the range to where a car can be driven longer than the driver can safely drive (say 16-18 hours) then the time spent charging is basically moot...you can charge while the driver sleeps. Hotels become a logical spot for chargers.

brudgers 7y ago
most EV owners probably do the majority of their charging at their own homes Owning a house is pretty much a prerequisite of electric cars for personal use in the US. 100 million Americans live in rental housing. https://www.citylab.com/life/2018/08/who-rents-their-home-heres-what-the-data-says/566933/ https://www.citylab.com/life/2018/08/who-rents-their-home-he...
- bryanlarsen 7y ago
  In cold areas, every rental unit's parking spot comes with a power outlet so that you can plug in your car's block heater. So it's possible.
  - ashtonbaker 7y ago
    I've lived in all types of rental housing across Michigan, and have never seen this. I don't think it covers even a small fraction of that 100 million.
    - bryanlarsen 7y ago
      I'm talking about places where -40 is common. And I'm not saying that many of the 100 million have block heater plugs, I'm saying that they could -- the cold places are a proof of viability.
    - Robotbeat 7y ago
      Michigan doesn't get that cold that often (maybe the UP does). Think Minnesota or Finland. And the point isn't that it already covers 100 million, just that if there's a need (like there is for warming cold engine blocks in winter), it's neither particularly complicated nor expensive to provide this kind of overnight trickle charging.
    - exotree 7y ago
      I have to second this. I have lived in MN and MI for most of my life and plugs outside are not at all common.
  - sib 7y ago
    My understanding is that the typical block heater might draw about 750-800 watts (call it 7 amps @ 120 volts in the US), which would charge one of the most efficient EVs out there (the Tesla Model 3) at about 3 miles of range per hour. So, if you parked your car for the whole night, you'd add about 30-35 miles of range. Other EVs are even less efficient. I think it's a different sort of effort to wire every parking spot with, say, a 40 amp, 240 volt circuit to enable moderately fast charging.
    - josephg 7y ago
      Thats probably fine for most people, for regular day-to-day commuting and things like that. A decent battery would give you a buffer in case you forget to plug your car in, or you need to do a lot more driving for a few days. Mind you, some small part in me is sad at the idea of yet another device around my home that I have to remember to charge each night. And I would expect that as EVs become more popular, chargers will start being something tenants will ask about. This will in turn put pressure on landlords who want wealthy tenants to wire up their garages for faster charging. We've done the same thing before with heating, washer/driers and internet over the last few decades.
    - bryanlarsen 7y ago
      It's not that much harder to pull 8 gauge wire instead of 12 gauge.
  - m463 7y ago
    Another possibility is that the changeover from incandescent to LED bulbs in streetlights has led to excess circuit capacity that is usable for curbside car chargers at the light pole.
- greglindahl 7y ago
  My apartment building has a charger in the parking lot. Is it that weird to imagine that eventually chargers will become common?
- m463 7y ago
  I think being able to charge at home or work is probably a more accurate statement. that said, there have beens steps to help renters: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=1947.6.&lawCode=CIV https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...

brudgers 7y ago

most EV owners probably do the majority of their charging at their own homes Owning a house is pretty much a prerequisite of electric cars for personal use in the US. 100 million Americans live in rental housing. https://www.citylab.com/life/2018/08/who-rents-their-home-heres-what-the-data-says/566933/ https://www.citylab.com/life/2018/08/who-rents-their-home-he...

bryanlarsen 7y ago
In cold areas, every rental unit's parking spot comes with a power outlet so that you can plug in your car's block heater. So it's possible.
- ashtonbaker 7y ago
  I've lived in all types of rental housing across Michigan, and have never seen this. I don't think it covers even a small fraction of that 100 million.
  - bryanlarsen 7y ago
    I'm talking about places where -40 is common. And I'm not saying that many of the 100 million have block heater plugs, I'm saying that they could -- the cold places are a proof of viability.
  - Robotbeat 7y ago
    Michigan doesn't get that cold that often (maybe the UP does). Think Minnesota or Finland. And the point isn't that it already covers 100 million, just that if there's a need (like there is for warming cold engine blocks in winter), it's neither particularly complicated nor expensive to provide this kind of overnight trickle charging.
  - exotree 7y ago
    I have to second this. I have lived in MN and MI for most of my life and plugs outside are not at all common.
- sib 7y ago
  My understanding is that the typical block heater might draw about 750-800 watts (call it 7 amps @ 120 volts in the US), which would charge one of the most efficient EVs out there (the Tesla Model 3) at about 3 miles of range per hour. So, if you parked your car for the whole night, you'd add about 30-35 miles of range. Other EVs are even less efficient. I think it's a different sort of effort to wire every parking spot with, say, a 40 amp, 240 volt circuit to enable moderately fast charging.
  - josephg 7y ago
    Thats probably fine for most people, for regular day-to-day commuting and things like that. A decent battery would give you a buffer in case you forget to plug your car in, or you need to do a lot more driving for a few days. Mind you, some small part in me is sad at the idea of yet another device around my home that I have to remember to charge each night. And I would expect that as EVs become more popular, chargers will start being something tenants will ask about. This will in turn put pressure on landlords who want wealthy tenants to wire up their garages for faster charging. We've done the same thing before with heating, washer/driers and internet over the last few decades.
  - bryanlarsen 7y ago
    It's not that much harder to pull 8 gauge wire instead of 12 gauge.
- m463 7y ago
  Another possibility is that the changeover from incandescent to LED bulbs in streetlights has led to excess circuit capacity that is usable for curbside car chargers at the light pole.
greglindahl 7y ago
My apartment building has a charger in the parking lot. Is it that weird to imagine that eventually chargers will become common?
m463 7y ago
I think being able to charge at home or work is probably a more accurate statement. that said, there have beens steps to help renters: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=1947.6.&lawCode=CIV https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...